Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Re: Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Postby Gixxer » Jul 28th, 2015, 8:21 pm

When coming home from the coast 8/10 I'll go Kamloops, way too many lights going Kelowna after exiting off the connector to Vernon. I tried counting once but lost track after 20.

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Re: Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Postby GordonH » Jul 30th, 2015, 4:51 am

Hopefully MOTI does not cave to those who foolishly want another traffic light on 97.
http://www.castanet.net/news/Vernon/145 ... -unpopular
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Re: Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Postby bob vernon » Jul 30th, 2015, 5:11 am

There can't be an overpass or underpass put in there. We already have one overpass built on the swamp there and it's sinking and causing those dangerous dips at each end. You can't put much weight on land like that. An underpass would have all kinds of water issues. It's beside a lake. A light is needed.
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Re: Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Postby GordonH » Jul 30th, 2015, 5:22 am

bob vernon wrote:There can't be an overpass or underpass put in there. We already have one overpass built on the swamp there and it's sinking and causing those dangerous dips at each end. You can't put much weight on land like that. An underpass would have all kinds of water issues. It's beside a lake. A light is needed.


Proposed "T" intersection is the best solution, why stop the flow of traffic if they don't need to. Vernon is already other bottle neck with total lack of left turning lanes.
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Re: Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Postby GordonH » Jul 30th, 2015, 6:04 am

Gixxer wrote:When coming home from the coast 8/10 I'll go Kamloops, way too many lights going Kelowna after exiting off the connector to Vernon. I tried counting once but lost track after 20.


The number of traffic lights from Connector turn off to end of Okanagan highway, by the way ends in Sicamous (yes 97B end near Salmon Arm this is not about that part).

Connector heading north:
11 traffic lights to the bridge
19 traffic lights from bridge to Airport (including airport light) 30 lights in distance of 31 Km's is crazy
12 traffic lights from YLW to Vernon Toyota
4 traffic lights from Vernon Toyota to Sicamous (including that one)

Grand total of 46 in span of 142 Km's
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Re: Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Postby Gixxer » Jul 30th, 2015, 6:50 am

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... htm#145074

I personally like the idea of the T-intersection. I also think they should stop all left lane turns along Hwy97/32St, and only allow them at controlled left lane turn intersections. Nothing worse than getting stuck behind some moron heading north bound trying to turn left onto 42nd ave. Is it that hard to drive to the controlled left turn lane on 43rd ave?

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Re: Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Postby Dizzy1 » Jul 30th, 2015, 8:32 am

Gixxer wrote:
I personally like the idea of the T-intersection. I also think they should stop all left lane turns along Hwy97/32St, and only allow them at controlled left lane turn intersections. Nothing worse than getting stuck behind some moron heading north bound trying to turn left onto 42nd ave. Is it that hard to drive to the controlled left turn lane on 43rd ave?

Or Denny's, or DQ, or Chevron for that matter. I was so glad when they extended the concrete island north of 39th to stop people from blocking traffic 100m from the light trying to get into the Lodge.

I always found it kind of funny that you can't turn left onto 30th where there is a light, or 32nd (during the day) where there is a light, but 31st where there is no light ... please by all means, try and turn left there ... its only a 100 ft from the other 2 intersections LOL!
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Re: Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Postby Dizzy1 » Jul 30th, 2015, 9:16 am

It would seem the only ones who don't want a stop light at the Stickle Road-Highway 97 intersection are Ministry of Transportation officials.

An open house on the contentious intersection drew dozens of people minutes after the doors opened Wednesday.

Castanet talked to several people, and no one approved of the government proposal to put a protected T at the hazardous intersection.

“I think it is too much engineering and not enough common sense,” said John Lainsbury after speaking with a ministry representative.

There were several such ministry types trying to sell the idea to a skeptical crowd.

“It has to be a controlled intersection,” Lainsbury said. “People have to start thinking about it as part of the city and not part of the highway.”

Lainsbury said the area is only going to grow, so controlling the Stickle-Highway 97 intersection is the best option.

Vernon council has been pushing for a stop light since day one, and Mayor Akbal Mund has been a strong proponent for not only a traffic light, but a lower speed limit through that section of road as well.

Murray Tekano, senior project director with the ministry, said a stop light would be more dangerous because people would not expect it on the highway and it is too close to 27th Street and the weigh scales.

Tekano claimed a lower speed limit through the area wouldn't work because people would drive to the comfort level of the road – a four-lane stretch of blacktop – and would likely exceed the speed limit anyway.

Asked if the logic in not lowering speed limits because they would not be followed could be applied to every road in the province, Tekano replied, “Lowering the speed limit will not make people drive slower.” He said the ministry tries to choose speed limits that best suit the particular road.

Bill Hague has lived near the intersection for 35 years, was a shuttle driver for several years and navigated the intersection many times a day.

“There is no reason to have it over 80 (km/h),” said Hague. “I see a need for a light and to slow down traffic.”

Bjorn Meyer had possibly the most creative suggestion of the day – a roundabout.

He said they work well in Europe and there are several in Washington state as well.

Meyer said the roundabouts he has seen in Washington have a lot in common with the Stickle intersection, but he was told there isn't enough room between the train tracks and the frontage road to build a highway roundabout.

Meyer joined the chorus of others calling for a light and lower speed limits as the solution.


http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... htm#145074

I'll be completely honest, I usually don't agree with Victoria and the MOT, but this is one exception where I truly believe they're bang on with offering the safest, efficient and economic solution. All these folks wanting a light and lowering the speed limit really aren't thinking this through. Lowering the speed limit from 90 to 80 is negligible, there really isn't much difference. Then the question is, will the lowered limit be in effect all the way from 48th or will you just have to slow down again once you approach the light. Either proposal is pointless. Then you have the light itself, where do most accidents occur? At controlled intersections! And it doesn't matter if the speed limit is 80km/h or 50km/h - that's where most crashes occur.

Most of the traffic that is having an issue is the traffic that is turning left back on to the highway and heading back into town even though a very viable option is given to them - go down PV Road! After that, its the traffic coming from the North turning left off the highway (which is not nearly the volume of the above) - again, another very viable option, you have 3 other turn offs before Stickle on to PV Road where the traffic is much more spread out and easier and safer to turn. The traffic from the RV park, either going in or out is thin enough where it really doesn't constitute enough of an argument to justify altering the flow of traffic to accommodate a handful of motorists.
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Re: Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Postby Glacier » Jul 30th, 2015, 2:42 pm

Here is the problem I see: Extreme shortsightedness, and 25 years of governments who would rather let future generations do things properly.

Look at the "4-laning" from Summerland to Armstrong. Look at the 4-laning from Cache Creek to Prince George (450 km). Look at the 4 laning from Kamloops to Alberta (~400km). Okay, now let's compare to say the 4 lane section done a long time ago east of Sicamous. Or the 4 laning between Hope and Vancouver. Or the 4 laning doing anywhere else in North America.

What's the difference, you ask? Well, let's compare two sections of road to understand: 1) Vernon to Armstrong, and 2) Hope to North Vancouver.

All interior highways are being 4-laned. ie. the 4 lanes are not separated by a wide grass median. No only are 4 laned roads less safe than properly divided highways, they are more expensive in the long run. Therefore, in 40 or 50 years when the Okanagan has the population and traffic of Vancouver, guess what, there will be no room to expand the highway because development will be built right up to the edge of the highway, and a perpetual less safe bottleneck will develop (if it hasn't already thanks to already shortsighted design). Think of the huge sections of 4-laning that could have been built property with divided sections just between Vernon and Armstrong, not to mention Cache Creek to Prince George, Kamloops to Alberta, etc. There are a few sections of development between Vernon and Armstrong, but most is still relatively undeveloped.

Let's compare this to highway 1 on the Lower Mainland. When they went to 4 lanes, they ensured that there was enough grass between the lanes that when they needed to expand, they didn't not need to expropriate the very expensive developed land. They just added more lanes in the middle.

Thank you past governments for looking out for us in the future. To the future generation: I'm sorry that my generation is kicking the can down the road so that you will not have the luxury of expanding your freeways like we have today. You are going to be so screwed.
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Re: Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Postby Dizzy1 » Jul 30th, 2015, 2:52 pm

Glacier wrote: Therefore, in 40 or 50 years when the Okanagan has the population and traffic of Vancouver, guess what, there will be no room to expand the highway because development will be built right up to the edge of the highway, and a perpetual less safe bottleneck will develop (if it hasn't already thanks to already shortsighted design).

Hwy 97 through downtown Vernon is the perfect example of that - no room left thanks to the businesses allowed to be built with next to almost no sidewalk.
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Re: Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Postby Glacier » Jul 30th, 2015, 2:56 pm

Dizzy1 wrote:Hwy 97 through downtown Vernon is the perfect example of that - no room left thanks to the businesses allowed to be built with next to almost no sidewalk.

Shortsightedness: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14473
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Re: Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Postby TheBoss » Aug 3rd, 2015, 12:14 pm

What the mot should do is completely upgrade the 27th st overpass. I don't even tempt to go over it anymore. That overpass is very scary especially is you hit the dips and are not expecting it. I remember what 15 years ago them "trying" to fix it. Now my dad grew up in Vernon and remembers the swamp land that use to be there. If they want to make the highway safe and effective fix it. Tear down the old over pass set it back further and make an under and over pass. Now you'll have to dig down a ways to hit solid earth, but i much rather have that then no left turns onto pv road. I like taking my short cut when coming home. Also my biggest issue is people trying to merge onto the highway. instead of going 90-100 they're trying to merge at 50-70kms!!! It scares me when i see a semi coming up my backside and these idiots are trying to merge onto a HIGHWAY, so i have to swing into the fast lane and get up to the proper speed. So mot please fix the road and stupid drivers please.
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Re: Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Postby GordonH » Oct 29th, 2015, 2:26 pm

When you have to start compromising yourself and your morals for the people around you, it’s probably time to change the people around you.
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Re: Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Postby Verminator » Nov 9th, 2015, 11:27 am



The option of extending 20th Street to the frontage road will result in the complete destruction of the north end of the BX Creek Trail and it's associated environment. If the MOT adopts this stupid proposal it can expect some serious opposition.
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Re: Changes at Hwy 97 & Stickle Rd north-end of Vernon

Postby Brushy Bill » Nov 9th, 2015, 12:24 pm

Talk about short sighted, whats going to happen to highway traffic access when the Foothills subdivision is complete. Another 1000 homes there maybe ? All onto Silver Star road ? or Rimer to Squires ? Another mess
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