Vernon referendum

[Hassel99]

Back to the referendum. Spend $13-$14 million now on a new rink. Or spend $10 million over the next 10 years on maintaining the rotting Civic. And there's no need to go to referendum to spend the $10 million on repairs and maintenance. It will just be added to your tax bill. In 10 years there will be another referendum for probably $20 million for the next version of a new sheet of ice.

Go down to Civic this weekend. The doors are open all weekend for minor hockey. Hold your nose near the washrooms, though. When they built the place in the 1930s, they ran some of the sewage pipes inside the concrete and those pipes have rusted out. Only the washrooms in the addition they tacked on in the 60s or 70s are usable.

Look at the walls and the poor onsite mix of concrete they made in the 1930s. Some of it is crumbling away. No redi-mix trucks back then. Check out the beams and trusswork that holds up the roof. There's a lot of cracked timber up there that needs replacing. If you really want to keep that rink, it'll cost.

I want to vote yes for the reasons you have stated but I can not until they figure out what to do with Kin race track. I think the existing proposal is short sited. THe city owns the kin land and that is the land that I think should be used. Not the existing parking lot.

I would vote YES for a new Arena, but I will vote no for the NORTH arena plan. They need finalize the kin race track issue and consider building the twin sheet WEST. They say West plan will cost $350k more. That is only 2.3% more to do it right....

IMO they need to put a pin in this plan until they council has the fortitude to deal with the Kin track issue.

[bob vernon]

Of course the side by side rink layout would be better, but it will be a lot more expensive. Remember that when the current Multiplex was built that it was placed on top of rock. Blasting was required to remove the small hill that was there. Some of the larger rocks that were blasted out were used to make the wall along the laneway between the Multiplex parking lot and RedTop Grocery next door. That rock isn't under the racetrack. Or if it is, it's way deep under the surface. A lot of work and expense might be needed to drive piles and reinforce the foundation for a rink that is west of the Multiplex. That's on top of the legal wrangling with the Agricutural Society that wants to keep horse racing alive.
Most of the area to the north under the current large parking lot is on solid rock.

[Hassel99]

2.3% more expensive as per the cities numbers.

Preload is normal. All of anderson way and the Walmart area needed major preloads and it worked well.

[jamapple]

I know that when it comes to "twinning", it is done as the first facility has an ammonia plant big enough for further expansion of another sheet. If Kal Tire Place has an ammonia plant large enough to enable another sheet from the same engine room, it would be substantially cheaper to twin the rink then to build another facility away from that site, and install another plant.

[Darkre]

I know that when it comes to "twinning", it is done as the first facility has an ammonia plant big enough for further expansion of another sheet. If Kal Tire Place has an ammonia plant large enough to enable another sheet from the same engine room, it would be substantially cheaper to twin the rink then to build another facility away from that site, and install another plant.

Actually it isn't a whole lot cheaper to twin a facility when you are talking about a $13million project unless that was designed in to the original project. There is some equipment that can be shared between the 2 rinks but a lot of the equipment is self contained for each rink and costs increase significantly when trying to retrofit to an existing plant instead of building from scratch. Depending on the location of the buildings you could save money long term by having fewer operators supervising the refrigeration plant of a twinned building.

[John500]

I am glad to see it goes to a "real" referendum instead of the Alternate Approval process. The AAP is so flawed and very undemocratic. Its just a quick way for a city to get things passed. I voted once against an issue through the AAP. I had to give name address and phone number plus id in order to vote. That should never be the case. Just like any other referendum it should be anonymous.

[bob vernon]

The vote is complete. The verdict was to build the second sheet of ice. Yes, it would probably be better to build it west of the Multi-plex but who knows how long the legal wrangling with the Agricultural Society will go on. When that land was donated, it was given to be used as a horse race track FOREVER. No other use. The donors never envisioned that horse racing would die, but it has.

By the way, one reason that horse racing has continued to prosper in southern Ontario, beyond population size, is that casino and off-track betting licenses down there are at the tracks in Toronto and Fort Erie, maybe in other places, too. This brings a lot of people to the track for other gambling and betting on the horses at other tracks plus the usual gambling. The handle at these tracks is huge. Here in BC, we decided to give the casino licenses to "friends" of the Socred/Liberals.

What are the major equestrian centres in western Canada? You know show jumping and dressage. The lower mainland and Calgary are the major centres. Vernon is half-way between. Years ago, the infield of the track could have been developed into a horse show ring. The grandstand could have been put on wheels to be dragged into the infield for a few major horse shows with the big money people from Calgary and the lower mainland coming to town, and rolled back for racing. But it all passed and the track faded away with only the penniless diehards wanting to keep the track going. That's where we are now with the track.

[Happytobehere]

Here's info on the referendum outcome


http://www.vernonmorningstar.com/news/357564071.html

http://www.vernonmorningstar.com/news/357987221.html

[Glacier]

So Smithers builds a brand new rink for 5 million, but Vernon has to spend 20 million to get one? That doesn't seem like a good use of Vernon taxpayer money.

[Hassel99]

So Smithers builds a brand new rink for 5 million, but Vernon has to spend 20 million to get one? That doesn't seem like a good use of Vernon taxpayer money.

Did you think your post would sound more dramatic when you decided to fudge the truth and say the new rink was $20,000,000 and not $13,000,000?

I would have agreed with your point if you had not been so inaccurate and misleading with your numbers.

To be fair, they are also not equivalent buildings, Vernon will have a dryland training center, office space, board rooms etc...
Is that worth more than double? I don't know, I doubt it. That being said, you get what you pay for.

[Glacier]

I didn't bother look up the total cost of the project. I assume it's like Smithers where they borrowed like 1 million for a 4.7 million dollar project. Since Vernon is borrowing 13 million, the project, I would assume, is more than 13 million, hence my guess at 20 million.

This is supposed to replace the existing Civic Centre, so why not scale down to that kind of size.

[Ingevan22]

So much for commenting in a factual manner about the Vernon referendum?

Here's the information from the City of Vernon:

"How will the proposed $13,837,513 arena be paid for?
The RDNO will borrow $13,250,000. After Municipal Finance Authority issuance costs are deducted, they will receive $13,025,128. The City of Vernon will contribute an additional $812,385 from the Civic Arena Reserve Fund."

Now, that does not include the cost to tear down or repurpose the Civic, which according to the City, will be up to City of Vernon taxpayers only. Also does not include the cost to keep Civic going for the next 3 years while our newest SoloPlex is under construction... and nevermind the cost of mitigating negative impacts on the Okanagan Military Tattoo, the Vernon Farmers Market, etc...

[bob vernon]

What possible costs to the Tatoo and the farmers' market would the city have to mitigate? Not to mention the costs to etc?

[Hassel99]

It urks me that the mayor is already talking about the art gallery referendum.

Can we fix our water and sewer first before we talk about a fancier place for paintings and sculptures?

[Ingevan22]

Hassel99, it's "because they deserve it".

You know what we deserve? Drinking water that meets provincial standards.

You know what residents in the Landing area deserve? A reasonable charge to hook up to sewer, instead of a municipal fee that goes up infinitely at 5% annual compound interest, plus $600+ per year infrastructure fees charged to folks who live next to pipes in the road, but aren't connected to 'em.

Let's find incentives to encourage folks to hook up! It should not be OK that there are still 1,000 Vernon homes around Okanagan Lake (including at least one councillor's) that are still on septic.

Why can it (sewer extension) be done in West Kelowna with grant monies, but not in Vernon?