More God-Complex Doctors

[OKal]

I tend to agree with you. I think somebody did drop the ball on this one as well, so an investigation is in order. The first thing I would be doing is ordering the dead man's hospital records - probably via a lawyer at this point - because I would not trust that the records would be necessarily open and honest at this point.

I am the woman whose father died in the Vernon ER that the Morning Star wrote about on March 13 http://www.vernonmorningstar.com/opinio ... 98661.html and Castanet Vernon reported on April 14 http://www.castanet.net/news/Vernon/163 ... father-die

Thank you all for your kind words, comments, and questions. I was in the hospital with my father during his stay. My husband and I both watched the situation unfold in horror and great disbelief. That evening, my father was stable, nestled in his bed, a sweet smile on his face, getting ready to go to sleep at 8pm. We were getting ready to go home. The next thing we knew my father was crashing. There was chaos as the nurses frantically tried to figure out what to do (there were 3 of them plus a respiratory therapist) but no doctor was there to direct them. My father's nurse was running between my father and the phone to update the doctor who was at home on my father's condition and to ask for his orders. My husband and I both were vocal and repeatedly asked for the doctor to come to see my father asap but the nurses were saying no to our pleading requests. We asked for the ER doctor (my father physically was in the ER although on paper, it turned out, he was in "ER overflow" which we didn't know at the time) or the hospitalist on duty who was familiar with my father to come to my father's bedside, but both doctors refused. They were "not supposed" to attend to a critical patient who was in the hospital because they were not his "most responsible physician" (MRP). It was a Friday night, and the MRP happened to be a doctor who had never seen my father before and knew absolutely nothing about my father's medical history, diagnosis, or prognosis. He also could not assess my father in the hospital because the doctor was at home, some 20 miles away. To compare, if you can't find a spot in a parkade and park in the overflow inside the parkade, does it mean you don't have to pay for parking? I don't think so. Or if you do take a chance, won't you be ticketed or towed? Try that at any of the Vernon Hospital parking lots. The rules apply equally to the cars parked in the parkade or main parking lot as they do to the overflow. Who knew Vernon Hospital ER and Vernon Hospital ER overflow were not the same unit the day my father needed medical attention? In fact, the day my father died, the overflow did become main ER on paper as it was in reality. Also, if you read the news articles on VJH 2-3 years ago, you would know that the VJH ER had been expanded to include all 22 rooms as well as trauma rooms, but the night my father was in Room 16, he was not allowed to be seen by the ER or hospital doctor on duty because he was "not in the main ER rooms 1-14" even though he was considered an "acute" patient and had been moved earlier from room 14 to room 16. If he wasn't in the ER, why then did we have to go to the ER and past the security to request access to the ER every time we went to visit my father in his bed inside the emergency department?

The doctor on the phone had no clue who my father was. According to my father's medical chart, he had stage IV cancer and that said it all. But did the doctor know that my father was shoveling heavy loads of snow, lifting them high and over his shoulder - something a healthy man or woman of his age or even younger, never mind with his diagnosis, may have trouble doing - just 3 short weeks earlier? Did the MRP at home on the phone know that a couple of hours before my father took a sudden turn for the worse at 8:30pm, he was exercising in his hospital bed getting ready to go home a few days later as his primary physician had informed him about at 5:30pm that day? My father was strong in body, mind, and spirit despite his diagnosis. I shook my father's hand that day and it was as firm as a young man's. Very strong. My father happened to cut his hand a couple of weeks earlier and developed an internal infection that was caught early enough to be treated and was showing clear signs of improvement in the hospital. My father's vital signs had been normal until his status suddenly changed to critical that tragic night. Guess what made him critical? A fluid overload. We were told by the doctor the next day that my father had been overloaded with IV fluids. No one was monitoring it closely... And then the chaos ensued, followed by a "hospital failure", which a junior hospital administrator also admitted to us the next day, and the heart attack that took my father's life, according to his medical records. If my father had been so unfit to live and had to die, as some suggested in their comments to the Castanet article, due to his stage IV diagnosis, how could he continue to live and to breathe for 42 hours following the large heart attack that took place while the doctor was undecided as to what to do despite very clear signs of an impending heart attack? The fluid overload and the heart attack led to multi-organ failure, stroke and eventually death. A very sick person would not have lived for so long after his body was so terribly damaged. Had there been a doctor by my father's side and the nurses who were well-trained and diligent, my father's heart attack and death could've been prevented. The doctors simply wrote my father off when they heard his pre-existing diagnosis. They did not even bother to come and see my father. Stage IV cancer? Has to die. Eight months earlier the doctors in the same Vernon ER had told me there was "no treatment available" for my stage IV father. They also told me they had the right to withhold treatment from my father simply because he had terminal cancer. Two doctors had told me that. According to them, he should've been left to die back in May 2015. My father continued to live a high-quality life for eight more months only because I was there to advocate for him and insisted the ER doctors find a suitable treatment. I promised to pursue certain legal actions and so they did find a very simple treatment for my father - a blood thinner. All of a sudden, a treatment was available. Eight months later, the unaware doctor on the phone, the ER doctor, and the hospitalist didn't think a stage IV patient had any "treatment available" either or perhaps they thought he had no right to live anymore.

While my father was struggling to stay alive with his lungs filling with fluid, the nurses were chatting and laughing two feet away behind the drawn curtain. They were discussing their personal lives not knowing that I was taking video footage of what was going on in the room and in the hospital. You can clearly hear they were jovially discussing an upcoming party while my father was begging was oxygen and displaying signs of great distress. Did the nurses care? Not much. Apparently, it was the last shift for one of them. They were too busy chit-chatting and "waiting for the doctor's orders". When I grabbed the phone to tell the doctor to issue orders to the nurses to stop the imminent heart attack, he asked me what medication he should give to my father to prevent the heart attack. I thought he was kidding. He was not. He was puzzled as to what to do. By the time the orders were given and the nurses did what needed to be done, it was too late. The same doctor didn't show up to see my father until 10am the next day.

I would agree, sometimes nurses are kept busy and some of them work very hard. Some of them are more dedicated and compassionate than others. Some of them are superb. My family and I thank them very much. Some, however, should not be in the medical profession. I spent 7 days and 3 nights with my father in the hospital. I took detailed notes of what medications were given to him, when, and why. I prevented the nurses from giving my father wrong medications on several occasions. I was told by a nurse that I should perform certain nursing tasks for my father as she thought it was only "fair" for me to provide care to him in the hospital. She gave me the orders and turned around to leave the room. Since when should visitors provide nursing care to the patients in the hospital? I witnessed a nurse hurt my father physically. My father was convinced it was done on purpose. I saw nurses very poorly trained and unwilling to do certain nursing tasks. I overheard many conversations that had nothing to do with work or patient care. My husband and I saw the nurses waste the night away in the ER sitting in a circle engaged in some idle chit-chat on the night my father crashed. The ER was quiet, four ER beds vacant, no doctor in sight. The nurse who was in charge of my father when he crashed was taking a nap after it was all over. We, on the other hand, were reprimanded by one of the ER nurses for wanting to take a little break in the family room at 3:30am when my father was already dying. We "were supposed to ask permission". Seriously! My disabled mother sat alone in the waiting room inside the ER across from my father's room all night and did any of those nurses come to check on her or offer any one of us water? Not for well over 24 hours. The sign on the water dispenser said "Staff use only. Ask for assistance". A nurse shift coordinator confirmed to us with a smile that "nurses chat a lot" on the job and then she proceeded to do just that in the ICU. Who knew proficiency in idle chit-chat was part of the nurse job description? What was "my job" to do while the shift coordinator and an ICU nurse were busily engaged in a chatter in the ICU hallway at 2 am? I was told by the administrator to leave my dying father alone and to roam the unfamiliar ICU unit in order to find a way to let my husband and the disabled mother in the wheelchair into the ICU after they had been stranded outside the unit for 20 minutes at 2:30am. They repeatedly buzzed the desk but no one let them in, even though the hospital staff knew they were at the entrance to the ICU, until my husband texted me asking me to let them in. I think that's why nurses are paid only $90,000 -110,000. They need hospital visitors to help them do their job. I just heard on the news they've been offered a pay increase by the BC government. Hopefully, the BC Nurses' Union accepts the offer.

I've probably witnessed more than the average hospital visitor would while I was in the hospital with my father. I took photos and videos in the hospital. I was stunned to see how undisciplined and careless some nurses and medical staff were. I have submitted the detailed evidence to the Interior Health Patient Care Quality Office for a review. If a hospital administrator says the hospital "clearly" provided "appropriate care" for my father, let him read my notes, see the photos, and listen to what my husband and I have to say. If that was appropriate care, I wish for them and their loved ones to receive the same quality of care.

Am I angry? I'm not sure. I'm terribly sad. I had not known the depth of such sorrow before.

In regard to my father's medical records, I have them. I've noticed that some of them were altered. The discharge summary, apparently, contained a "typo" that was corrected exactly a week after I had met with hospital administrators and initiated an investigation into my father's death. The same doctor who was too busy to see my father on the night my father needed urgent help in the ER somehow found the time to review and to edit my father's discharge summary 9 days after his death. Wasn't he too busy? I've been told by a nurse that it's easy to alter medical records if they wanted to do so.

One of the medical professionals who cared for my father said, "Your father shouldn't have died that time". A hospital administrator told me on January 30th, "We are sorry. There was a hospital failure last night". A nurse involved in my father's care said, "I hope you get to the bottom of it."

As to the doctors with the so-called "god-complex", it must be a North Okanagan thing. My husband, a native Vancouverite, and I had never even heard the term until we got introduced to the Interior Health medical system where they talk about god-like doctors. It may have been part of the Canadian medical system 20-30 years ago or is current reality in some parts of the world but no one in large Canadian cities like Vancouver ever talks about doctors like that. One of those Vernon "super-doctors" prevented me from escorting my dying father to a CT scan making a comment an egotistical child would make, "So you have no time for me?... I'm too busy to talk to you when you come back". What did he want to talk to me about? He wanted to communicate to me clearly that my father was going to die. I already knew it. I knew it the moment my father's heart rate went up to 178 bpm the night before and when neither the nurses, nor the doctor did anything to prevent a heart attack from happening until it was too late. Where do you think the "super-doctor" chose to inform me of my father's approaching death? In the ER entryway, with patients around us overhearing the conversation, one getting up from his ER bed to shut the door in order to give us privacy and not to be exposed to such a disturbing conversation. I asked the doctor to speak to us in private. He refused. What kind of doctor is that? The same doctor who ordered a medication to be given to my father a few hours before he passed away to promote the condition that had contributed to my father's death in the first place. I stopped the nurse from administering that medication to my father. Why was my father ordered that medication by the "super-doctor"? Because "it's the hospital protocol and everyone in the ICU gets it once a day", was the reply. Did the doctor know my father's condition when he ordered that medication? No. How many patients die in VJH due to medication mismanagement? I know of a few from the law suits filed against the hospital and from talking to the people who shared their own VJH horror stories. I wonder how many more died and didn't tell their story or how many families chose not to go public.

The scope of unprofessionalism of some of the VJH doctors, nurses, and medical staff that we have witnessed was astounding. You know who seemed to work the hardest in the ER? The housekeeping personnel. All three of the ER cleaners that we saw daily were incredible doing their job quietly, courteously, and conscientiously.

A wonderful young doctor in Vernon once said to me, "There is no ego in medicine". He is right. Ego in medicine is the wrong thing to have. A very dangerous thing. "God-complex" doctors are a thing of the past. The time is now for people to speak up to make a positive change in the medical care they have the right to receive.

Thank you all for your support and best wishes to you and your loved ones!

[LANDM]

Doctors are public servants/government workers. They don't get to choose who to treat, just like a welfare worker doesn't get to choose who they give benefits to.

You confuse getting paid by the government with them being public servants or government workers.
The rules specifically say that they can choose who to treat and that they may terminate a doctor/patient relationship.

Giving your opinion is one thing.....stating as fact is another.

[pepsilover]

You confuse getting paid by the government with them being public servants or government workers.
The rules specifically say that they can choose who to treat and that they may terminate a doctor/patient relationship.

Giving your opinion is one thing.....stating as fact is another.

Sounds like you are the confused one. Doctors are not only paid by government, they are licensed and practice medicine in the province of British Columbia under GOVERNMENT LAWS AND BYLAWS, both federal and provincial.

https://www.cpsbc.ca/about-us/laws-legislation

Laws and Legislation

The College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia is governed by the Health Professions Act and the Bylaws made under the Act. Relevant federal and provincial Acts that affect the practice of medicine are also listed below.
•Health Professions Act
•Regulations
•Bylaws

MORE AT LINK

Now, you said that 'the rules' (which rules please?) SPECIFICALLY state that doctors may 'choose who to 'treat'. You are making this claim, I suggest you at least back it up.

And yes, they are government workers, paid by the government and governed by the laws of the land. Always better to post FACT instead of your opinion.

[oneh2obabe]

Let's not start with the I said, you said, they said, I'm right, you're wrong. Stick to the topic and discuss it like adults. Thanks.

[LANDM]

[quote="LANDM"

You confuse getting paid by the government with them being public servants or government workers.
The rules specifically say that they can choose who to treat and that they may terminate a doctor/patient relationship.

Giving your opinion is one thing.....stating as fact is another.[/quote

Sounds like you are the confused one. Doctors are not only paid by government, they are licensed and practice medicine in the province of British Columbia under GOVERNMENT LAWS AND BYLAWS, both federal and provincial.

https://www.cpsbc.ca/about-us/laws-legislation

Laws and Legislation

The College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia is governed by the Health Professions Act and the Bylaws made under the Act. Relevant federal and provincial Acts that affect the practice of medicine are also listed below.
•Health Professions Act
•Regulations
•Bylaws

MORE AT LINK

Now, you said that 'the rules' (which rules please?) SPECIFICALLY state that doctors may 'choose who to 'treat'. You are making this claim, I suggest you at least back it up.

And yes, they are government workers, paid by the government and governed by the laws of the land. Always better to post FACT instead of your opinion.

Oh god. I hate it when I am forced to explain the obvious. Since you correctly are able to, apparently, google how doctors are regulated, you may want to actually read and brush up on it.

They are NOT public servants. Public servants are governed under the Public Service Act.

Doctors are professionals regulated by The College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia and governed by the Health Professions Act and the Bylaws made under the Act.

Simply being paid through the provincial government does NOT make them "government workers".

On the other issues, the College clearly states :

"Is a physician obliged to treat a patient?
A physician is only obliged to treat a patient if:
the patient has an established relationship with the physician and his/her failure to address an ongoing problem might be harmful (and/or when failure to attend might constitute abandonment); or
if delay in attending to a patient's problem might result in serious harm to that patient."

And, regarding terminating a relationship, which was already gone through earlier in this thread,
"Can a physician choose to stop seeing a patient?
There will always be some patient-physician relationships that, for whatever reason, simply do not work or become unproductive. Often the relationship ends because the patient no longer trusts the judgement of the physician or because of a difference of opinion, either with the physician or with his/her office staff. In these instances, either the physician or the patient may decide to end the relationship. If the physician decides to end the relationship, s/he is obliged to consider the patient's safety and well-being first.
The physician must ensure that the patient is not acutely in need of immediate care, and that s/he has been given appropriate notice to find another physician. While the College advises physicians to provide a written explanation about the termination decision, neither the physician nor the patient is required to state the specific reasons."

But, you should have already known all of this already. Any other explanations needed???

[pepsilover]

"Oh god. I hate it when I am forced to explain the obvious." God should be capitalized.

Speaking of googling...........I posted the link for this in the 8th post of this thread. Guessing you took it from there.
And it was me who detailed how and why doctors MAY be permitted to end a doctor/patient relationship. Just scroll back. However YOU claimed that doctors could CHOOSE THEIR PATIENTS and I don't see any proof of that yet. Please post your proof.

Let me explain it to you so you will understand. Public Service workers have a union as their guide, doctors are not unionized so they have the College of Physicians and Surgeons who guide them. The College is under government ethics, guidelines and rules. So it's sort of the 'union' for the doctors. Get it?

The reason there is a complaint process at all is because doctors CANNOT unilaterally do as you claimed and CHOOSE their patients (you still haven't posted anything that declares that by the way). Think of 'GRIEVANCE PROCESS' it's the same kind of thing. As to ending the doctor/patient relationship I am well aware there are situations where this is done and where complaints are filed, however the guidelines for doing so fall under the College who is governed by legislation. The issue is they ARE government workers, legislated by the government not just paid by them.

Please post for me where doctors get to choose their patients. Because according to what you DID post, an ER doctor who a patient had just met does not have to treat a patient. Not making a lot of sense. This is what you posted:

""Is a physician obliged to treat a patient?
A physician is only obliged to treat a patient if:
the patient has an established relationship with the physician and his/her failure to address an ongoing problem might be harmful (and/or when failure to attend might constitute abandonment); or
if delay in attending to a patient's problem might result in serious harm to that patient."

You do realize that the reason a College exists at all is because these lines are blurry and complaints are filed all the time don't you? This has little to nothing to do with the fact doctors are GOVERNMENT WORKERS.

[pepsilover]

The College of Physicians and Surgeons is regulated by this:

https://www.cpsbc.ca/about-us/laws-legi ... /about-HPA

About the Health Professions Act

There are three main components of the legislative framework that regulates the profession of medicine. These include the Health Professions Act, the Regulations and the Bylaws.

Health Professions Act – the Act is umbrella legislation that provides a common regulatory framework for health professions in British Columbia.

Regulations – Regulations are created by government for each individual health profession governed under the Act. Each regulation defines reserved titles, contains a statement about the scope of practice and outlines a set of restricted activities describing what members of that profession are authorized to do.

Bylaws – each regulatory college has its own bylaws. The bylaws set out the details of the operation of the organization, including: the duties and responsibilities of a governing board, committees and the registrar; qualifications for registration and licensing; the regulation of professional conduct and ethics; and fee schedules.

Professional Regulation

A complete list of BC's health professions governed by regulatory colleges under the Health Professions Act can be found on the Ministry of Health website. To learn more about BC's regulated health professionals visit http://www.bchealthregulators.ca.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

All under the MINISTRY OF HEALTH.

[LANDM]

My comments in red below. It appears your arguments are limited to generally publishing links to legislation without actually reading the content and specific wording contained within

"Oh god. I hate it when I am forced to explain the obvious." God should be capitalized.

Ahhhh, more opinion stated as fact. I specifically chose not to capitalize God in this context. I would like to say "good try" but it wasn't even a good try.


And it was me who detailed how and why doctors MAY be permitted to end a doctor/patient relationship. .....please post your proof.
......

Since it appears you can't read and understand the content, I will refer back to my post above and ask you to reread.

The reason there is a complaint process at all is because doctors CANNOT unilaterally do as you claimed ......

Once again, reread it "either a patient or physician may decide....."
That clearly allows a unilateral decision.
.

[pepsilover]

But you were taking issue with the fact I said that doctors were GOVERNMENT WORKERS. You said that just because they were paid by the government did not make them government workers. I proved to you that doctors are regulated by government legislation.

As you first stated, it's one thing to post your opinion, but do not claim it as FACT.

[pepsilover]

On the other issues, the College clearly states :

"Is a physician obliged to treat a patient?
A physician is only obliged to treat a patient if:
the patient has an established relationship with the physician and his/her failure to address an ongoing problem might be harmful (and/or when failure to attend might constitute abandonment); or
if delay in attending to a patient's problem might result in serious harm to that patient."

Interestingly enough, this quote of yours is from the FAQ part of the College's site. (Frequently Asked Questions), and not from any actual law, bylaw or Act.

https://www.cpsbc.ca/for-public/faqs

[Bsuds]

Quote from this article.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/ ... e20360452/

". Doctors are self-employed, not government employees

Canada has a publicly funded health care system, but the vast majority of doctors do not work for the government. A patient is free to choose which doctor they wish to visit, and they are entitled to essential physician health services without charge. Doctors are self-employed, which means they can determine their own hours and work location, and they are responsible for paying their employees, for office space and other overhead expenses. Doctors earn money by billing their provincial government for the services they provide to patients.

The Canadian health system is often referred to as “socialized” medicine, but it is actually a mix of private providers billing governments for publicly funded services."

Also here...see page 14.

https://www.bcauditor.com/sites/default ... _FINAL.pdf

it's one thing to post your opinion, but do not claim it as FACT.

Those appear to be "Facts" but still probably not good enough for you.

[pepsilover]

Quote from this article.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/ ... e20360452/

". Doctors are self-employed, not government employees

Canada has a publicly funded health care system, but the vast majority of doctors do not work for the government. A patient is free to choose which doctor they wish to visit, and they are entitled to essential physician health services without charge. Doctors are self-employed, which means they can determine their own hours and work location, and they are responsible for paying their employees, for office space and other overhead expenses. Doctors earn money by billing their provincial government for the services they provide to patients.

The Canadian health system is often referred to as “socialized” medicine, but it is actually a mix of private providers billing governments for publicly funded services."

Also here...see page 14.

https://www.bcauditor.com/sites/default ... _FINAL.pdf


Those appear to be "Facts" but still probably not good enough for you.

Yeah, probably not. Because it's an OPINION PIECE, states so right in your link. Sigh........

Not only that, it is regarding the private vs. public health care that is emerging in parts of our country and specifically references the Cambie Street centre in Vancouver. If you want to discuss private vs. public care start another topic, and please don't use opinion pieces on a private clinic as some sort of proof, 'cause it simply isn't. Doctors are regulated by the MINISTRY OF HEALTH, a government body.

[oneh2obabe]

BACK. ON. TOPIC. NOW. If anyone wants to debate whether ANY government regulated business means they are government employees, start another thread.

[flamingfingers]

My sympathies to OKGal on losing her father.

But I think her energies could have been better directed towards demanding physician care for her father rather than taking voluminous notes, photos and video recordings of nursing activities.

And as far as 'offering water' to families - regardless of whether the water fountain was marked 'for use of staff' - nursing staff are not waitresses - there is a cafeteria available and there are also vending machines that dispense a variety of sustenance - including water.

As well - 'discharge summaries' are not a required part of a patient's medical record, if the patient was never 'admitted to a hospital bed' and remained in the ED.

While I do empathize, I feel there is a bit of an emotional overlay that while understood, is not quite rational.

[pepsilover]

OKal, my sympathies on losing your Dad, and in such a way.

Of all the reading I did from your post, THIS to me is the important point, the issue that caused his death and the issue which demonstrates negligence on the part of medical staff, including nurses.

" My father's vital signs had been normal until his status suddenly changed to critical that tragic night. Guess what made him critical? A fluid overload. We were told by the doctor the next day that my father had been overloaded with IV fluids. No one was monitoring it closely... "

Most people don't understand the importance of the IV and of monitoring fluids, but nurses and doctors do. Apparently it is something many of them are lax at. I have had two similar situations regarding serious issues with the monitoring of IV fluids, one was with my father in another city approximately three years ago, the other was with myself just this past February in KGH. My father had been in the hospital with pneumonia. He had been on IV fluids (and antibiotics). My mother phoned me one day as she visited him all day every day, and said that he is sleeping ALL THE TIME. And I was like what? Now he was elderly but she said it was really bad, this sleeping all the time. I was vacuuming the house at the time and trying to think what could this be? Then all of a sudden, out of the blue, I thought 'HIS IV' (but I thought he had one in as he had every day I had seen him). So I immediately called her back and asked 'Does he have an IV in still?'. She looked, and said no he doesn't. I said - well I won't tell you what I said because it's more what I DID. Got in the car and flew to the hospital, went to see Dad then directly to the nurse's station asking them what the hell they are doing removing his IV. He also was on diuretics (water pill) because of the pneumonia, as well he had not been eating or drinking properly at all for over a week in there. Now you tell me WHY WOULD THAT IV HAVE BEEN REMOVED? Well apparently they didn't know why either because nobody gave me an explanation, and the first "nurse" that came in and tried to insert an IV 'couldn't find a vein' and just sort of gave up. I stood there and said "I am NOT leaving until my father has a working IV in him, so get somebody else to do it who can". Oh, she was on her 'break', that's right, on her break. And apparently no other nurse could or would put in his IV. I said 'Fine, I will wait right here with my father until she gets back and puts in an IV'. Which I did. Once he had his IV in, he bloomed like a rose, woke up, was alert, the whole nine yards.
I know my father would have died if I hadn't stepped up. Looking back, knowing what I know now, it was horrifying to me how little the medical staff cared about the IV at all. It was just like I was saying 'Where's his aspirin'? They did not react as if it was even important, just 'another day at the office'. No rush. No care. Nobody. That's what some of these hospitals count on in my opinion. Just let the old folks die (he was 89 at the time). I was more or less told because of the doctor shortage that the old folks in the nursing home really aren't a priority at all, and don't have the services of a doctor (this was a few years later when Dad went into a home; the only 'doctor' there was a nurse practitioner).

Then I had my own experience with IV fluids. After major surgery they 'forgot' to monitor my IV fluids for six hours and I was severely dehydrated. This was in the Recovery. There is more to this story which I have sent to you privately.

All this to say that the monitoring of the fluids is what you say caused your father's death (or rather the LACK of monitoring them) and I believe this is something that needs to be addressed in the medical community because I don't believe this is an isolated incident. If I've had two incidences in my family I bet others have too. The problem is many of them wouldn't even know if it was the fluids that caused some of their problems. Let's just say everybody should google the signs of dehydration and know them if you have family in the hospital, ESPECIALLY older folks.

Keep following up and make sure somebody is held accountable. You will have to find out if it was the doctor on call or the nursing staff. I'm guessing it was the nursing staff since they are the ones who monitor IV fluids (or don't).