Get Off the Pot!

[Smurf]

This brings up some interesting questions. I understand what you are saying and actually agree with what you say. However when do we and when do we not enforce our laws. Do we charge a street seller selling drugs to anyone. Do we charge a pot shop which is selling drugs to anyone. Do we charge a huge grow up that is obviously tied to a large criminal element, say Hell's Angels. Who decides what laws we prosecute and when. Do we leave that up to individual officers or even groups of officers. Are our officers there to enforce our laws or to decide what laws to enforce. Are we not opening a whole Pandora's box by letting officers decide what to do and what not to do. Would it be right for me as an electrician to follow whatever building codes I want depending on what I feel is important. These pot shops or at least some of them are openly breaking the laws right on our streets. I truly cannot see any dilemma for our council, they are illegal, aren't they?

[Donald G]

After reading Smurf's real life comments and going back and reading a number of, what to me are completely unrealistic theories professed by a few others, I am left wondering what it is that enables a few people to refuse or be unable to understand the very logical consequences of what Smurf is saying.

[dontrump]

Are our officers there to enforce our laws or to decide what laws to enforce. Are we not opening a whole Pandora's box by letting officers decide what to do and what not to do

this is exactly what goes on evey day and has for years don't think for a second it does not happen day in and day out
every cop out there decides one way or the other don't kid yourself

I truly cannot see any dilemma for our council, they are illegal, aren't they?

its not councils right or duty to decide criminal law

[Smurf]

Sorry dontrump I liked your post in error which is probably pretty obvious if anyone has read my posts.

dontrump » Today, 9:24 am

this is exactly what goes on evey day and has for years don't think for a second it does not happen day in and day out
every cop out there decides one way or the other don't kid yourself

Yes it does to an extent but I would like to think that basically they enforce them all and that expecting them to completely ignore them is wrong. In many cases I might say they go with the flow. For instance speeding, they know that the courts will probably never convict a person for speeding 3 kmph over the limit so they basically go with 10 over as they know it will stick. Same as basic possession of marijuana they know it is useless to charge someone with a tiny amount as it won't stick. However in a case where someone is openly selling marijuana illegally I believe they and council should both see to it is stopped.

I was constantly involved in this type of thing, both as a Safety Officer and a Union shop rep. And the same as council who hire the RCMP it was my managers job to see I did the job as laid out by company and/or Union rules. Believe me I would have been in serious trouble, possibly sued or worse if I had knowingly let someone break safety rules and it resulted in a death. I actually saw a case in Manitoba where a company supervisor at a job site told workers to wear safety harness during job planning. A worker, went to work, ignored him and fell to his death. The supervisor and the company were charged with negligence causing death and convicted. I had no choice but to see everyone followed rules and I definitely could not choose which ones. As far as myself I had a target on my back to follow rules whenever and wherever I worked. Everyone was waiting to correct me if I didn't.

its not councils right or duty to decide criminal law

I never said anywhere it was their duty to decide criminal law. I believe it is councils duty to see that criminal law, federal and provincial is followed and enforced in any things that they do.

[dontrump]

smurff
iam not a **smoke dope** supporter at all. the city council will have to trust the cops(subjective these days) to
monitor the situation its a obvious grey area otherwise they would have all been shut down and everyone involved in jail
its not the citys business at this point in time

[TheBoss]

The cops really do pick and choose what charges could go before the courts. I asked a cop "hypothetical question, If i was caught doing doing donuts and drifting in a snowy parking lot what is the worst that could happen" The cops response surprised me, "well this the BS part (sorry for language) Your car could be impounded up to 7 days and a magnitude of charges could be put against you, Stunting, Dangerous driving, driving with undue care, etc." My response was, "so if the cop is having a bad day etc" Then yeah the chances are greater of having charges. He then did tell to make sure it's in a big open parking lot with no vehicles, pedestrians etc. This was my two minute conversation with the police officer in vernon.

Now if i was busted i would stop, hand him my info and ask when he's finished if he could give me some pointers

I do think the rcmp should go after illegal grow ops, criminals such as the hells angels and corrupt politicians. That is a fantasy world filled with unicorns and world peace. The shops in town are running in a grey area, the city of Vernon issued then licenses as a test run to see what regulations may or may not have to come up when it's legalized. The rcmp in the mean time is wasting its time and money trying to shut these places down. I would much rather have a business instead of another vacant lot.

[Smurf]

The Boss wrote:

I do think the rcmp should go after illegal grow ops, criminals such as the hells angels and corrupt politicians. That is a fantasy world filled with unicorns and world peace. The shops in town are running in a grey area, the city of Vernon issued then licenses as a test run to see what regulations may or may not have to come up when it's legalized. The rcmp in the mean time is wasting its time and money trying to shut these places down. I would much rather have a business instead of another vacant lot.

It appears the man in charge of rewriting the Marijuana laws disagrees with you. I saw him on TV yesterday saying so and now this.

OTTAWA — Criminal Code provisions on marijuana must be upheld and enforced even as the government considers a legalized regime, says former Toronto police chief and Liberal MP Bill Blair.

Blair who has been tapped by the Trudeau government as the pot frontman, was among a group who spoke at an open Senate Liberal caucus meeting Wednesday focused on the legalization of marijuana.

Earlier this month, members of the police community — which Blair belonged to before starting his political career — said the discussion surrounding legalization had created confusion, especially for front line enforcement officers.

Blair, parliamentary secretary to the Justice minister, seemed to make a concerted effort to nip that in the bud on Wednesday.
Laws remain on the books, he said.

"The laws that currently exist, exist in this country and we are a ... nation of laws," Blair said. "Quite frankly, until those laws are repealed by Parliament through the appropriate processes, they should be upheld, they should be obeyed."

"In the interim, as everybody works on these issues, is that a possibility — that amnesty could be granted during this four-year term?" Munson asked.

Blair did not answer the question directly.

"We are going to take the time to do it right. ... This is a complex issue," Blair said. "In order to get this right, the government is undertaking a number of initial steps."

Clive Weighill, president of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, also addressed the Senate Liberal caucus on Wednesday.

Almost all of the chiefs understand legalization is coming and can offer meaningful suggestions on how to proceed, Weighill said following the forum.

But he warned current expectations stretch beyond what can be achieved now.

"I've been very public about this," he said. "I think the expectations are far outreaching the capability of the government to reach a conclusion on this ... for us to have a crystal ball and say what the regulations are going to be in the future leaves us in a real grey area, so we have to rely on what we have for the laws right now."

Tom Stamatakis, president of the Canadian Police Association, welcomed Blair's remarks on the Criminal Code provisions that remain in effect.

"Front line police want to be constructive partners in modernizing Canada's marijuana laws, but our members are the ones who are put in difficult positions when mixed messages are sent regarding the enforceability of current laws," he said in a statement.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/canada/201 ... blair.html

Reading this I would say he considers these store fronts illegal the same as illegal grow ops. Reading this and listening to him I don't think there is any grey area for our RCMP or council. Do you?

[dontrump]

council could cancel their business licence. council has zero authority to rule them illegal all they can do is cancel the license if the violator is not in complete alinement with city rules and regulations

[Donald G]

Postby dontrump » Feb 23rd, 2016, 9:24 am

this is exactly what goes on evey day and has for years don't think for a second it does not happen day in and day out
every cop out there decides one way or the other don't kid yourself

That is a completely false statement that is not based on actual real life knowledge of what police discretion means.

All such decisions by the police are based on;

1. Is there reasonable and probable grounds to believe that the suspect committed the offense ??
2. Is there evidence to support the charge ??
3. Was there a breach of the INTENT of the law, rather than simply a technical violation ??
4. Is there a simpler and less costly way of preventing similar such future actions ??
5. Are there civil ramifications to the decision to charge or not charge ??
6. Is the offense of a minor enough nature that a police officer should be deciding the issue at all ??

[Donald G]

Unfortunately the irresponsible political blathering that took place during the election campaign from now PM Trudeau and his party is inconsistent with what he is now saying and doing. He and he alone created an expectation that made it impossible for the police to do the "right" thing, given that no one has told them what the "right thing" to do is at the present time.

Another example of the complete lack of leadership trudeau has displayed and continues to display.

[dontrump]

Unfortunately the irresponsible political blathering that took place during the election campaign from now PM Trudeau and his party is inconsistent with what he is now saying and doing. He and he alone created an expectation that made it impossible for the police to do the "right" thing, given that no one has told them what the "right thing" to do is at the present time.

Another example of the complete lack of leadership trudeau has displayed and continues to display.

In my opinion any idiot that voted for trudeau is truly an idiot

[feverspore]

Yet I can go to any pharmacy and get my antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds.

Sometimes without as much as a signature.

Go figure.

[Donald G]

Postby TheBoss » Feb 22nd, 2016, 6:06 pm

Like i say i want to see the rcmps efforts put to more useful matters.

Do you think that the RCMP having the right to determine which laws they will enforce and which laws they will completely ignore is a good way to run a society ??

Does that not have the makings of a pseudo police state ??

[Donald G]

Postby feverspore » Jun 26th, 2016, 1:05 pm

Yet I can go to any pharmacy and get my antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds.

Sometimes without as much as a signature.

Given that a prescription is needed for the "proven" ones I have to assume that you are talking about lesser non prescription and largely unproven substances.

[feverspore]

Mno..a prescription is required.

My point is that the way I see it the Government wants us doing drugs, just not OUR drugs. Billions of dollars are spent on pharmaceutical drugs that are far more dangerous than some of those street concoctions. But that's ok as long as the Government can line its pockets, they are happy.