Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Re: Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Postby GordonH » Nov 12th, 2017, 2:49 pm

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Re: Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Postby Verum » Nov 12th, 2017, 7:20 pm

slimebucket wrote:im playing devils Advocate here so I am sorry if this offends anyone.

"People are entitled to celebrate remembrance however they personally choose and even if they choose. " - Thats a dangerous comment.

What if I choose to remember murders by *bleep* on graves? No, we have traditions, and customs. That's what makes a society. You don't celebrate every holiday any way you want, you do so according to the customs and traditions of your society. Other wise why even celebrate em? Like if I wanted to change christmas, and not use santa, or anything christmasy... well then im doing my OWN thing and NOT celebrating Christmas.

The people who died in war did so so that our traditions and customs would not be trampled and discarded. Yes they fought for us to be free, but they also fought for TRADITIONS and customs, and EVERYTHING that makes up our societies way of life.
...

We have laws which make it illegal to *bleep* on a grave, deface a cenotaph, etc. If the traditions you adopt are legal and not hurting someone else, I see no problem with them. Traditions and customs change and evolve. People are not only free to make up their own ones, but to also modify existing ones. The City of Vernon obviously felt that this tradition would be better served in a different fashion. I actually don't agree, but I respect their right to make a decision and I don't feel that moving the venue to make it so that more people, especially infirm and elderly, can comfortably take part is a problem in and of itself.

Those who went to war did so for many reasons, not all easily understood or predicted. It is unfair and dangerous to ascribe motive to others, especially those who are dead. I guess the last member of my family to be militarily involved in a war was my Grandfather. He told me about his time in the military and it is fair to say that he went to war for a variety of reasons, some noble, some less so, but he never once suggested that preserving existing traditions of customs was one of them. I guess he was more interested in preserving his and his fiancée's freedom to live their lives and embrace whatever traditions they saw fit. He wasn't a very judgemental person, at least when I knew him. It's also important to note that he went as a young man, without the wisdom or experience that life would later bring to him.
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Re: Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Postby Verum » Nov 12th, 2017, 7:28 pm

MAPearce wrote:
Verum wrote:People are entitled to celebrate remembrance however they personally choose and even if they choose. You have your method, they have their own and belittling those who do not adhere to your preferred approach is petty. We are afforded freedom by the actions of others, some we choose to remember on Remembrance Day, others we remember otherwise and many we forget. These people acted, lived and died so that we could live our lives without others dictating how. Perhaps the best way to honour these people is to do the same for others and not dictate or criticise others for how they live their own personal lives


Here's the rub with that ...

People in Vernon DID attend their Cenotaph , including veterans .. But the band , local and "other" dignitaries preferred the warmth and comfort of the new multi purpose arena ??

Say what you want , it's not going to change my mind about the disgusting level of disrespect shown to those who gave so much so you could do so little in exchange ..

But , keep it up Verum .. Try to justify that .

We all have our own ways of showing respect. It is ignorant to assume that others' traditions are somehow lesser than yours and show less respect for those who gave up so much for our free society. The virtue signalling going on is just pathetic. I'll honour those who sacrificed how I choose, and if you have a problem with it, it is you with the problem, not me.
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Re: Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Postby coffeeFreak » Nov 12th, 2017, 7:43 pm

If memory serves me correctly, part of the reason the City moved Remembrance Day services inside was because many seniors complained that they could not attend an outside service because of the cold and the lack of seating. That doesn't excuse nothing happening at the Cenotaph, but where is it written that a municipality is responsible for this? Shouldn't it be up to citizens?! Or is this just another pass the buck, pass the blame situation? Seems to me it would make more sense if Cubs/Scouts, Brownie/Guides, and/or Cadet type groups were part of this.
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Re: Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Postby MAPearce » Nov 12th, 2017, 7:47 pm

Seems to me it would make more sense if Cubs/Scouts, Brownie/Guides, and/or Cadet type groups were part of this.


The Cubs/Scouts, Brownies/Guides and both the Cadets attended the Kelowna Cenotaph....

So did the vets , and seniors , familes with children and dogs ....
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Re: Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Postby MAPearce » Nov 12th, 2017, 7:50 pm

We all have our own ways of showing respect. It is ignorant to assume that others' traditions are somehow lesser than yours and show less respect for those who gave up so much for our free society. The virtue signalling going on is just pathetic. I'll honour those who sacrificed how I choose, and if you have a problem with it, it is you with the problem, not me.


Yeah .... right ... "My" traditions were passed down from "heritage"...

It's why they're called traditions...

Where are YOURS ???
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Re: Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Postby bob vernon » Nov 12th, 2017, 8:24 pm

Martin Luther split from the Church of Rome over something like this. And still the BS goes on, hundreds of years later. The service inside at the Multi-plex was well attended, and if the spirits of departed soldiers might have been there, that was just fine. The generation who endured the Depression and also WWII were warm.

The site where the cenotaph is located was a hockey rink until the Civic arena was built in the 1930s. Oh, the horror. Where was the cenotaph before that? Was there even one?
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Re: Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Postby WalterWhite » Nov 12th, 2017, 9:01 pm

As usual, the intent of the OP has become mired in personnel interpretation. This isn’t about how anyone thinks someone else should or shouldn’t honor those that have served. This is about a memorial cenotaph attended by residents and veterans alike on the one day of the year formally reserved for such - and there was zero formal representation let alone organization, by the city of Vernon. On behalf of all those that attended, and those they were there to honor - the city of Vernon failed miserably.
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Re: Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Postby Loki2u » Nov 12th, 2017, 9:36 pm

WalterWhite wrote:As usual, the intent of the OP has become mired in personnel interpretation. This isn’t about how anyone thinks someone else should or shouldn’t honor those that have served. This is about a memorial cenotaph attended by residents and veterans alike on the one day of the year formally reserved for such - and there was zero formal representation let alone organization, by the city of Vernon. On behalf of all those that attended, and those they were there to honor - the city of Vernon failed miserably.


There hasn't been a 'formal' memorial service at the cenotaph for several years, not sure why anyone is surprised.

I'm sure the city of Vernon would be grateful if you or the OP were willing to volunteer your time next year to organize a formal event at the cenotaph if this affects you so much?

Wait, do either of you even live in Vernon? :135:
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Re: Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Postby Dizzy1 » Nov 12th, 2017, 11:20 pm

coffeeFreak wrote:If memory serves me correctly, part of the reason the City moved Remembrance Day services inside was because many seniors complained that they could not attend an outside service because of the cold and the lack of seating.

I remember that as well.
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Re: Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Postby WalterWhite » Nov 13th, 2017, 1:56 am

Loki2u wrote:
WalterWhite wrote:As usual, the intent of the OP has become mired in personnel interpretation. This isn’t about how anyone thinks someone else should or shouldn’t honor those that have served. This is about a memorial cenotaph attended by residents and veterans alike on the one day of the year formally reserved for such - and there was zero formal representation let alone organization, by the city of Vernon. On behalf of all those that attended, and those they were there to honor - the city of Vernon failed miserably.


There hasn't been a 'formal' memorial service at the cenotaph for several years, not sure why anyone is surprised.

I'm sure the city of Vernon would be grateful if you or the OP were willing to volunteer your time next year to organize a formal event at the cenotaph if this affects you so much?

Wait, do either of you even live in Vernon? :135:


Which is exactly what those that attended the cenotaph said “once again, no ceremony”. Many of those in attendance were veterans. What difference does where anyone lives matter regarding an opinion on Remembrance Day services - or lack thereof? I’d feel the same way if this was in Toronto.
Last edited by WalterWhite on Nov 13th, 2017, 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Postby WalterWhite » Nov 13th, 2017, 2:00 am

Dizzy1 wrote:
coffeeFreak wrote:If memory serves me correctly, part of the reason the City moved Remembrance Day services inside was because many seniors complained that they could not attend an outside service because of the cold and the lack of seating.

I remember that as well.


- and that’s fine. But why no service or representation whatsoever at the actual cenotaph where many others choose to pay respect to those that served?
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Re: Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Postby Chyren » Nov 13th, 2017, 9:08 am

I guess no one can win in this argument. Both sides are right.

The cenotaph should be where the ceremony is...period. However, the fact that so many people still show up to Remember those who gave us the rights we have today at the arena is also wonderful.

Yes it would be nice to see everyone at the cenotaph but also don't count out the fact that as a whole Canada respects the day and comes out in droves to show their support.

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Re: Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Postby Dizzy1 » Nov 13th, 2017, 1:05 pm

WalterWhite wrote:
- and that’s fine. But why no service or representation whatsoever at the actual cenotaph where many others choose to pay respect to those that served?

Why does there have to be a service at the Cenotaph? The official service was announced at a location that was advertised. Those who wanted to pay their respects could have just as easily gone to the publicly announced service?

Perhaps, they were expecting everyone to go to the official service and not the Cenotaph?

As for the OPs title - Vernonite's can go to their cenotaph anytime they want.
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Re: Veronites can't go to their Cenotaph ?

Postby alanjh595 » Nov 13th, 2017, 2:17 pm

Dizzy1 wrote:
WalterWhite wrote:
- and that’s fine. But why no service or representation whatsoever at the actual cenotaph where many others choose to pay respect to those that served?

Why does there have to be a service at the Cenotaph? The official service was announced at a location that was advertised. Those who wanted to pay their respects could have just as easily gone to the publicly announced service?

Perhaps, they were expecting everyone to go to the official service and not the Cenotaph?

As for the OPs title - Vernonite's can go to their cenotaph anytime they want.


I don't know the answer, but why do all the devoted have to gather every Sunday at church? Why not just stay home and watch on TV? I guess I could expand that to sports games also, why do they have to all get together in a big stadium, eat $12 hotdogs and have to line up to pee?

AND they do it every week.....the day of Remembrance is only once a year.
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