Wagons for the homeless????

Wagons for the homeless????

Postby suncoast » Jul 27th, 2018, 7:38 pm

Seriously?? I just read about a new go fund me for the homeless to buy them wagons because their shopping carts will be returned to the rightful owners. This is the most screwed up senseless effort I've ever heard of. So now we'll have homeless people wandering around pulling a wagon. News flash here people......Social services provides numerous services and support for these individuals. DO NOT contribute to these leeches of society!! They will still steal from you and take whatever they can from society, they will still urinate and shoot up in the downtown business doorways.....only with a wagon in tow! do not encourage them, it's like in the national parks do not feed the wildlife....Same thing holds true here, encourage them to take responsibility for their actions and get off the government dole!! The well is only so deep and yes I agree that there really are people out there that need our assistance but the vast majority of the homeless are there by choice, they refuse to follow rules or abide by conditions as a result the really truely needy people are left without what they should really be getting.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby lensbaby » Jul 27th, 2018, 8:01 pm

Hey Suncoast - Thanks for drawing attention to it. just in case you change your mind -
https://www.gofundme.com/wagons-for-vernon039s-homeless
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby mexi cali » Jul 27th, 2018, 8:13 pm

Hey Lensbaby; not to be the Grinch here or anything but the carts actually belong to someone else. Never do they belong to the people who have liberated them from parking lots or wherever.


They cost the owner upwards of 200.00 and in many case, more.

Having said that, I love the initiative and I hope the idea gains some traction. I will watch it and if it does, I will donate to the cause.

I ask though that you not make it sound like it shouldn't be a problem for the Walmart's and Home depots etc. of the world. They are expensive and once again, they are never the property of those who have stolen them.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby lensbaby » Jul 27th, 2018, 8:18 pm

mexi cali wrote:Hey Lensbaby; not to be the Grinch here or anything but the carts actually belong to someone else. Never do they belong to the people who have liberated them from parking lots or wherever.


They cost the owner upwards of 200.00 and in many case, more.

Having said that, I love the initiative and I hope the idea gains some traction. I will watch it and if it does, I will donate to the cause.

I ask though that you not make it sound like it shouldn't be a problem for the Walmart's and Home depots etc. of the world. They are expensive and once again, they are never the property of those who have stolen them.


The post is about a group that is raising funds to BUY carts from Walmart - that is what I support. I did not say, or even hint that I support the theft of carts - because I don't. I also don't support the position of the City of Vernon - which is find those that are down and out and kick them in the teeth!
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby mexi cali » Jul 27th, 2018, 8:32 pm

see, that last line in your post says that you are sympathetic to those who are actually in danger of having to give back what was never theirs to begin with.

That's where I have the problem.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby lensbaby » Jul 27th, 2018, 8:43 pm

Quote the line please - from MY post?
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby Scrobins94 » Jul 28th, 2018, 10:31 am

LOL, the initiative is started by someone who lives in Armstrong, who obviously doesn't have to deal with the *bleep* the Vernon homeless do. Why do people keep enabling them? Offering them an easy way out is kind-hearted, but is quite detrimental in the long-term. If you really want to donate, go donate to a professional organization (like Gateway Homeless Shelter or Karis) that also teach life skills and helps put a roof over their head. Also with their greater purchasing power their dollar gets more mileage.

Enabling homeless and making it easier for them to lug their crap around town is just encouraging them on that bad behaviour which takes away from them having no option but to get better.

It's quite f*cking simple really.

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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby TreeGuy » Jul 28th, 2018, 11:13 am

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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby OKkayak » Jul 28th, 2018, 11:20 am

Instead of buying them carts, why not offer them a job? :popcorn: [icon_lol2.gif]

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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby bob vernon » Jul 29th, 2018, 7:35 am

You're assuming that the street people are capable of working. Some aren't. And these jobs that you're talking about will be at minimum wage for how many hours per week? Enough to put a roof over their heads? And eat?

There is a segment of our population who will never be able to take care of themselves. Like it or not, we have a choice to either take care of them or turn them loose on the streets. And there is another segment who've been preyed upon by dealers selling heroin, meth, and the fentanyls and every combination of these addictive drugs. And the penalties for drug trafficking are so low that there is always somebody who steps up and replaces them.

You can take the shopping carts and return them to the stores who own them, and even confiscate their possessions that are in the cart. And what does that solve? We'll have a person standing on the street with nothing in this world. He might try to steal things to replace what the security guards just confiscated. Or rob somebody on the street.

These are bandaids that we keep putting on a sore spot. But the patient has cancer.

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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby mexi cali » Jul 29th, 2018, 8:59 am

mexi cali wrote:see, that last line in your post says that you are sympathetic to those who are actually in danger of having to give back what was never theirs to begin with.

That's where I have the problem.

which is find those that are down and out and kick them in the teeth!


This line. The kicking in the teeth is the taking back of the shopping carts which are not nor were ever not, theirs.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby mexi cali » Jul 29th, 2018, 9:02 am

Every time this topic comes up, I restate the same thing; many of these people don't want our help. They are where they are the most comfortable.

I agree that we need programs that teach life skills but if they were built and the doors opened, if participation is voluntary, the line up will be non-existent.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby lensbaby » Jul 29th, 2018, 9:21 am

I wrote - " which is find those that are down and out and kick them in the teeth!"

Mexi Cali rewrote it to this line. "The kicking in the teeth is the taking back of the shopping carts which are not nor were ever not, theirs."

The first one is my line. The second one is the way you twisted it to make a point that never existed. - you can see above what I actually said.. Kindly don't put your words into my mouth. I never mentioned it being OK to steal shopping carts. And the city is not planning to take back the shopping carts - they have neither the inclination or the authority.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby Verum » Jul 29th, 2018, 10:04 am

mexi cali wrote:Every time this topic comes up, I restate the same thing; many of these people don't want our help. They are where they are the most comfortable.

I agree that we need programs that teach life skills but if they were built and the doors opened, if participation is voluntary, the line up will be non-existent.

Firstly, I suspect that the number who don't want our help are very small. Those who don't want to better their lives are small too. Some may have significant barriers, including addiction, mental health, physical health, behavioural issues, etc., but being homeless itself is a massive barrier to improving ones' life. Some may find the effort required to improve their lives to be overwhelming, especially with the barriers they face, but the reality is that few want to be homeless.

If we tackle the barriers and help level the playing field, to give them a fighting chance at becoming productive members of society, I suspect we would make huge steps forward, but as this forum is evidence, people don't want to address these barriers, because they themselves are often the source. The constant denigration of the homeless, the push for anti-homeless policies (as opposed to anti-homelessness policies), the sneering look and assumption that all homeless are feckless, dirty, addicted and scum and ultimately the lack of understanding that these people are basically living in survival mode is a massive barrier in and of itself. It's very hard to move from such survival mode to having the time and energy to make actual significant improvements in ones' life.

Not that we should ignore criminality, theft, etc., just that if our intent is to get the most efficient solution, we need to stop treating homeless people as if they are the problem and rather start treating homelessness and lack of productive occupation as the problem. We need to help these people become productive members of society so we can tax them and have them contribute to rather than take from the system.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby Verum » Jul 29th, 2018, 10:07 am

For those who think that homeless people are the problem, there is an exhibit on homelessness in Kelowna at the Okanagan Heritage Museum. It's well worth a visit and it's free if you wish. Try reading the contributions as if they were by your parents, siblings, friends, children, etc. It's a great way to get a different perspective on the issue.
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