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"to get control of some activities downtown"

"to get control of some activities downtown"

Postby 00fxd » Nov 12th, 2017, 7:06 pm

It's about time. My wife has to walk the long way around the block to avoid passing through the walkways to get to her car. It seems that we have given up the lovely Nanimo Square downtown to the bums - loud cursing and drug talk and the smell of pot. Good folks/tax payers that pay for the square are forced to take a wide path around those goings on. I'm sure that there are vagrancy laws that need to be enforced - why aren't they?
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Re: "to get control of some activities downtown"

Postby ferri » Nov 13th, 2017, 9:53 am

I think this is the article you are talking about?

https://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton ... subpoenaed
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Re: "to get control of some activities downtown"

Postby XT225 » Nov 13th, 2017, 9:58 am

ferri wrote:I think this is the article you are talking about?

https://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton ... subpoenaed


The city seems too focused on Paul Braun, the person in the story above, rather than the REAL problem of aggressive and dangerous people that frequent the downtown. Paul is a nice chap; you can talk to; isn't aggressive or threatening. The problem is more the folks who hang in Nanaimo Square.
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Re: "to get control of some activities downtown"

Postby twobits » Nov 13th, 2017, 7:36 pm

XT225 wrote:[
The city seems too focused on Paul Braun, the person in the story above, rather than the REAL problem of aggressive and dangerous people that frequent the downtown. Paul is a nice chap; you can talk to; isn't aggressive or threatening. The problem is more the folks who hang in Nanaimo Square.


XT, it's easier to hit a stationary target to make a point. I understand a lawyer has offered to defend this man in court pro bono. It will be interesting to see how much in legal fee's the City is willing to spend on this now that the man has a free lawyer.
My question would be that since we as taxpayers pay for 90% of RCMP costs, why don't the RCMP pick up the dangerous, aggressive drunks in downtown and instead let Bylaw ticket spitters try to make downtown a stress free experience?
My guess would be no revenue in that activity when 3 RCMP members can generate 1000 bucks an hr hiding behind a tree nailing people for real crimes like going 10k over the limit or no seat belt.
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Re: "to get control of some activities downtown"

Postby 0gopogo » Nov 14th, 2017, 2:59 am

Richard Cannings office is in Naniamo Square. Is he aware of the noisy unemployed derelicts hanging out at his doorway??? :200:
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Re: "to get control of some activities downtown"

Postby fluffy » Nov 14th, 2017, 3:14 am

This will quickly escalate into another PR nightmare for the city. Mr. Braun is generally seen as harmless, at worst some will see him as a nuisance rather than a threat. By choosing the easy target over the real source of the problem they’re inviting a media frenzy. Whoever made the decision to go this route didn’t think it through very well. Unless of course, it’s a shrewd plan to cast dirt in council’s direction. You never know.

Of course the “real source of the problem” runs much deeper than most of us care to admit, affordable housing, precarious low-paying employment, and ultimately income disparity. I don’t expect the City to be able to solve problems most of the world is wrestling with, but any goof can see that inadvertently creating an up-and-coming folk hero to make their point was the wrong move.
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Re: "to get control of some activities downtown"

Postby twobits » Nov 14th, 2017, 4:16 pm

fluffy wrote:This will quickly escalate into another PR nightmare for the city.


I agree and it could get real nasty depending on the willingness of the pro bono lawyer. This could potentially be appealed all the way to the supreme court based on Constitutional rights. Does a loitering bylaw supercede freedom of movement or association? Is sitting on a bench on Lakeshore drive for hours every day draw a bylaw ticket?

fluffy wrote: Unless of course, it’s a shrewd plan to cast dirt in council’s direction. You never know.


Are you suggesting a staff conspiracy here? Cuz it's City Hall that initiated it and I seriously doubt it was done without consultation with the Mayor at the very least. The better theory is that this is Mayor driven cuz Paul's perch is in close proximity to his own business and inaction on Paul will make him seem weak to the downtown business owners that have been complaining about the sidewalk vagrants.
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Re: "to get control of some activities downtown"

Postby fluffy » Nov 15th, 2017, 6:03 am

twobits wrote:Are you suggesting a staff conspiracy here? Cuz it's City Hall that initiated it and I seriously doubt it was done without consultation with the Mayor at the very least.


Not necessarily a conspiracy. It would have to rest on whoever made the decision to target Mr. Braun. It wouldn't take a crystal ball to see that using him as the starting point on a "clean up" project downtown would raise a few eyebrows, especially when there are more appropriate places to start. Council could very well have been thinking Nanaimo Square/James Gang if it was indeed their decision to launch this action, one bylaw officer or low level supervisor with some foresight and a hate on for current council could have put this ball in motion.

This is all academic at this point, the ball in fact is already rolling. Backing off on Mr. Braun or delivering him a "slap on the wrist" in court will be an engraved invitation to remaining loiterers that it's business as usual, and anything more than a slap on the wrist will paint council as Goliath to an underprivileged David. They really should have started where the problem was greatest. Too late now. Maybe that's just what someone wanted.
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Re: "to get control of some activities downtown"

Postby twobits » Nov 15th, 2017, 7:03 pm

fluffy wrote:Not necessarily a conspiracy. It would have to rest on whoever made the decision to target Mr. Braun. It wouldn't take a crystal ball to see that using him as the starting point on a "clean up" project downtown would raise a few eyebrows, especially when there are more appropriate places to start. Council could very well have been thinking Nanaimo Square/James Gang if it was indeed their decision to launch this action, one bylaw officer or low level supervisor with some foresight and a hate on for current council could have put this ball in motion.

This is all academic at this point, the ball in fact is already rolling. Backing off on Mr. Braun or delivering him a "slap on the wrist" in court will be an engraved invitation to remaining loiterers that it's business as usual, and anything more than a slap on the wrist will paint council as Goliath to an underprivileged David. They really should have started where the problem was greatest. Too late now. Maybe that's just what someone wanted.


Not according to the new CAO comments today about this being a strategy of some sort for transitional housing needs. He is vague however on exactly what that strategy is however and left me rather confused. It does however negate the possibility of it being a lower level employee with a council grudge. Unless of course the CAO is now making up a planned approach to cover a renegade bylaw officer in which case the situation would be beyond believable.
More likely is a discussion took place between senior staff and at the very least the Mayor about ticketing vagrants and Paul was the easy target. What the brainiac's didn't foresee was what the backlash would be from the public on picking on a homeless person.
One would have thunk that they might have learned from their attempt to litigate Ms Slump for writing letters to the local rag criticizing City Hall. Nothing riles people more than big brother trying to stifle or make an example of the little person.
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