Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Postby Cactusflower » Jan 11th, 2018, 3:00 pm

https://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton ... Banks-Cres

I missed my chance to comment on this yesterday, so here goes:
Did the Lark Group actually buy that property and if so, what did they pay for it? Something really stinks if a developer can hold a town hostage for months on end over a property that anyone with a brain knows is in the wrong location for a development of this size. If a municipal government can be thrown out for proposing a swap of ALR land for some rocky hillside,you'd think the new bunch would know better than to even consider this ill-conceived plan.

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Re: Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Postby seewood » Jan 12th, 2018, 10:08 am

I'm waiting for Summerland to finally say this location is not suitable for a project of this scope. Project is a great idea, but find a better location.
Once this has been proclaimed, the Lark group will then put forth a large media campaign saying Summerland is again not open for business.

Regarding the ownership of the property, I believe one of lark groups principals bought it/own it. Likely bought it for a song as it was not zoned institutional at that time. Now applying for rezoning to allow the construction for this project.
I'm thinking this is the reason they say they will not look for a properly zoned area for this project, this land was comparatively cheap, a properly zoned land parcel, if you can find it, not so much.
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Re: Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Postby fluffy » Jan 12th, 2018, 2:05 pm

seewood wrote:Regarding the ownership of the property, I believe one of lark groups principals bought it/own it. Likely bought it for a song as it was not zoned institutional at that time. Now applying for rezoning to allow the construction for this project.
I'm thinking this is the reason they say they will not look for a properly zoned area for this project, this land was comparatively cheap, a properly zoned land parcel, if you can find it, not so much.


What's wrong with the old Parkdale Place property just south of Main Street, east of the park? There has been a couple of proposal for this property that didn't fly, this would be an ideal location.
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Re: Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Postby Anonymous123 » Jan 12th, 2018, 10:33 pm

No view.
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Re: Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Postby old boy » Jan 15th, 2018, 10:31 pm

No lake view and cheap land compared to the Wharton St site!!As proposed this project is just in the wrong location,both for the benefit of the town and for those that are going to occupy it.It should be in the Downtown area,easy to service and maintain and for the economic benefit of the downtown business,as well as the ease of accessibility for the residents!
Good project,WRONG LOCATION!!!

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Re: Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Postby twobits » Jan 16th, 2018, 8:45 pm

old boy wrote:No lake view and cheap land compared to the Wharton St site!!As proposed this project is just in the wrong location,both for the benefit of the town and for those that are going to occupy it.It should be in the Downtown area,easy to service and maintain and for the economic benefit of the downtown business,as well as the ease of accessibility for the residents!
Good project,WRONG LOCATION!!!


And when you have a hundred million to invest in a community the size of Summerland, then and only then, will I consider your opinion for the location of that investment to be credible. Until then, yourself and other like minded opposers are nothing but self interested, or horribly informed people that were coerced into signing a petition by self interested nimbies.
This project will provide a large amount of well paying jobs, 500k every year in City taxes, and 3 million in Development cost charges that can immediately be spent on road, sewer, and water upgrades for the entire community.
An independent third party engineering consultant has concluded minimal if any risk to the fish hatchery water supply with some basic efforts.
The land is not in the ALR and just because it had fruit trees on it , does not mean that is the best use for the property. And if you nimbies think that you are saving something other than a few disgruntled nearby property owners, you need a wake up call and really need to question what things are worth fighting over for the overall benefit of the entire community. This piece of land is nothing. It is squat to anyone. And if your end game is to think that winning this petty position will force Lark Group to move to a location more suited to your ideas.....news flash.....they will pack their bags and leave Summerland forever. The message will also be sent to all others that may consider following.
And Summerland will be left with the property as it is, without the jobs it would bring, without the 3 million in capital improvement to City infrastructure, and 500k plus every yr in perpetuity in taxes for even more City improvements.
I can't wait to see what reason the next round of councillors gets booted from office for like this crew will and the ones before did just for attempting to benefit the whole community and put it on sustainable ground to be able to replace the aging water and sewer systems.
Do any of you nimbies realize how serious the condition of your infrastructure is in need of replacement? Are all of you nimbies also going to sign petitions to stop the property tax increases to replace this infrastructure? You probably will until your poop doesn't leave the bowl and back's up into the tub or shower or your street gets washed out cuz the 60 yr old water main ruptured. Everything is good until then.
Last edited by twobits on Jan 16th, 2018, 9:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Postby Anonymous123 » Jan 16th, 2018, 8:51 pm

old boy wrote:No lake view and cheap land compared to the Wharton St site!!As proposed this project is just in the wrong location,both for the benefit of the town and for those that are going to occupy it.It should be in the Downtown area,easy to service and maintain and for the economic benefit of the downtown business,as well as the ease of accessibility for the residents!
Good project,WRONG LOCATION!!!


Do the folks living out in Prairie Valley, the end of Victoria Rd, out Garnet Valley or Lower Town not benefit the downtown businesses economically?
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Re: Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Postby twobits » Jan 16th, 2018, 9:12 pm

Anonymous123 wrote:
Do the folks living out in Prairie Valley, the end of Victoria Rd, out Garnet Valley or Lower Town not benefit the downtown businesses economically?


Didn't you know that all of the people living out there got their prescriptions and groceries in Vancouver? They just figger that once they are in the car, they might as well make a road trip out of it.
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Re: Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Postby twobits » Jan 16th, 2018, 9:44 pm

Cactusflower wrote:https://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton/215848/Not-all-oppose-Banks-Cres

I missed my chance to comment on this yesterday, so here goes:
Did the Lark Group actually buy that property and if so, what did they pay for it? Something really stinks if a developer can hold a town hostage for months on end over a property that anyone with a brain knows is in the wrong location for a development of this size. If a municipal government can be thrown out for proposing a swap of ALR land for some rocky hillside,you'd think the new bunch would know better than to even consider this ill-conceived plan.


I also missed the opportunity to respond to your post. Just one question for you and it is easy since you have everything idiot figured out. Who or what is going to replace the infrastructure in Summerland that is on the verge of failure if new revenue sources are not found?
Doubt what I am saying? Look up Summerland infrastructure replacement needs.
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Re: Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Postby Darkre » Jan 17th, 2018, 4:21 pm

I've had a hard time understanding the opposition to this project. The question I've asked a few people from Summerland is "How will the construction of this project directly affect you?" The answer has always been "well I guess it won't really" or something to that effect. I then asked why they were opposed to it.

1. Fish Hatchery water supply
This is a valid concern, you would hate to see construction of any project have a dramatic effect on a neighbouring business. However I've pointed out how it is ridiculous that the hatchery does not have a secondary source of water regardless of whether this complex is built or not. Springs can have their paths changed from earth quakes, slides or even construction in an area thought to be totally unrelated. To rely solely on this one water source for so long is a huge gamble that the hatchery has been lucky to survive for this long.

2. Won't help local businesses
Will it hurt them to have 7-800 more residents in town? It may not be within walking distance to anything but many older retirees would rather shop locally than drive the highway to Penticton or Kelowna, especially in the winter when local businesses need the biggest boost.

3. Road wasn't meant for that kind of traffic
The road will be upgraded but also even if you were to account for 720 additional vehicle trips on that road a day (which is probably hugely exagerated) that is 1 car per minute over a 12 hour period (7am-7pm). I would think the road could handle that. Even if you think that is too large of an increase, How would it affect you?

4. Slide area
If Lark Group and the owners of the units are willing to accept this moderate risk what concern is it of yours? Even if there is a slide, How would it affect you?

5. Farm land
It has grapes on it... It isn't part of the food chain anymore, it's part of the booze chain. You can't expect this land to contribute anything to the food chain ever again whether the complex is built or not.

6. Wrong location
This is the one that is hardest for me to understand. There may be properties that would be better suited from the towns perspective but what about from the developers and future owners? This is a lake view property that isn't in the ALR. Construction of the complex directly affects only a handful of property owners. A project like this would also put an OPEN FOR BUSINESS sign up in Summerland and some of these other properties that you would like to see developed likely would be. Once again, even if the project is built at this location, how would it directly affect you?

The final thing anyone opposed should ask themselves is how big of a tax increase they are willing to absorb if this project does not go ahead. This is the one question I wish politicians would ask when there is opposition to a project. This complex will contribute $400-500K a year to Summerland. Due to the infrastructure deficit, if this project doesn't proceed the money has to come from somewhere.

This is similar to the issue faced by our local cities when the prison was first proposed. The question asked then was "Should we allow a prison to be built in our city" and of course the answer is going to be no. Nobody wants that. However if they had stated "By allowing a prison to be built the city will receive $6 million a year. We require this for infrastructure repairs regardless of if the prison is built or not. Our question to you is would you rather have a prison built in our city or have your taxes increased by 10% to make up the difference." Now Penticton faces the same issues as if a prison was built in our city but we receive none of the benefit. Summerlander's face a similar financial choice with this project except the new proposed neighbours are of a much higher quality.

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Re: Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Postby Darkre » Jan 17th, 2018, 4:31 pm

Cactusflower wrote:Did the Lark Group actually buy that property and if so, what did they pay for it?

I did a little research and the property was on the market in Oct 2014 for $2.5 million.
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Re: Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Postby Anonymous123 » Jan 17th, 2018, 5:23 pm

Darkre wrote:I've had a hard time understanding the opposition to this project. The question I've asked a few people from Summerland is "How will the construction of this project directly affect you?" The answer has always been "well I guess it won't really" or something to that effect. I then asked why they were opposed to it.

1. Fish Hatchery water supply
This is a valid concern, you would hate to see construction of any project have a dramatic effect on a neighbouring business. However I've pointed out how it is ridiculous that the hatchery does not have a secondary source of water regardless of whether this complex is built or not. Springs can have their paths changed from earth quakes, slides or even construction in an area thought to be totally unrelated. To rely solely on this one water source for so long is a huge gamble that the hatchery has been lucky to survive for this long.

2. Won't help local businesses
Will it hurt them to have 7-800 more residents in town? It may not be within walking distance to anything but many older retirees would rather shop locally than drive the highway to Penticton or Kelowna, especially in the winter when local businesses need the biggest boost.

3. Road wasn't meant for that kind of traffic
The road will be upgraded but also even if you were to account for 720 additional vehicle trips on that road a day (which is probably hugely exagerated) that is 1 car per minute over a 12 hour period (7am-7pm). I would think the road could handle that. Even if you think that is too large of an increase, How would it affect you?

4. Slide area
If Lark Group and the owners of the units are willing to accept this moderate risk what concern is it of yours? Even if there is a slide, How would it affect you?

5. Farm land
It has grapes on it... It isn't part of the food chain anymore, it's part of the booze chain. You can't expect this land to contribute anything to the food chain ever again whether the complex is built or not.

6. Wrong location
This is the one that is hardest for me to understand. There may be properties that would be better suited from the towns perspective but what about from the developers and future owners? This is a lake view property that isn't in the ALR. Construction of the complex directly affects only a handful of property owners. A project like this would also put an OPEN FOR BUSINESS sign up in Summerland and some of these other properties that you would like to see developed likely would be. Once again, even if the project is built at this location, how would it directly affect you?

The final thing anyone opposed should ask themselves is how big of a tax increase they are willing to absorb if this project does not go ahead. This is the one question I wish politicians would ask when there is opposition to a project. This complex will contribute $400-500K a year to Summerland. Due to the infrastructure deficit, if this project doesn't proceed the money has to come from somewhere.

This is similar to the issue faced by our local cities when the prison was first proposed. The question asked then was "Should we allow a prison to be built in our city" and of course the answer is going to be no. Nobody wants that. However if they had stated "By allowing a prison to be built the city will receive $6 million a year. We require this for infrastructure repairs regardless of if the prison is built or not. Our question to you is would you rather have a prison built in our city or have your taxes increased by 10% to make up the difference." Now Penticton faces the same issues as if a prison was built in our city but we receive none of the benefit. Summerlander's face a similar financial choice with this project except the new proposed neighbours are of a much higher quality.


Best post on this subject yet. Well said Darkre.
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Re: Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Postby twobits » Jan 17th, 2018, 8:11 pm

Yup. But Summerland is such a special warm fuzzy place that needs to be preserved in it's current form according to some people. They don't realize that their toilets won't continue to flush or that their water supply will be "boil order only" unless they pay up or increase their own tax contribution.
I do notice an absence of anti Banks posts though in the last 24 hrs. Hopefully it is a sign of recognition of some of the truth presented here has got a few people thinking for themselves rather than blindly following a rather well organized nimby campaign.
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Re: Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Postby RandyDandy » Jan 20th, 2018, 1:32 pm

More obfuscation and a litany of half-lies and semi-truths from Lark today on Castanet. Thank you Castanet. At this point Lark's desperation is palpable. Was it Waterman who said that without Hatchery support this project would not fly? I think it was also he who said 18 months ago that it was a done deal. "The Art of the Deal".....perhaps?

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Re: Banks Crescent Boondoggle

Postby seewood » Jan 20th, 2018, 7:17 pm

Has the geo-tech reports mention anything about the silt material on a slope being able to support the weight of the project? There used to be areas that were considered "red-zone" no building as a chance of sliding was enough to preclude any construction. Any geo-tech going to sign off on this?
I trust the water run off has been addressed regarding slope stabilization.
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