Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Re: Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Postby southy » Sep 4th, 2014, 7:51 am

This situation at the United Church's Naramata Centre just gets more and more confusing.

http://www.pentictonherald.ca/news/arti ... b2370.html

So now what? More of the same or will a contract be signed? I just don't get it.
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Re: Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Postby twobits » Sep 4th, 2014, 8:52 am

southy wrote:This situation at the United Church's Naramata Centre just gets more and more confusing.

http://www.pentictonherald.ca/news/arti ... b2370.html

So now what? More of the same or will a contract be signed? I just don't get it.


My prediction......this season is gone so they will mothball the place next year and reopen the following year without CUPE employees.
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Re: Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Postby southy » Sep 4th, 2014, 4:26 pm

Sounds good Twobits but what do they do with their Intentional Community?
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Re: Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Postby twobits » Sep 4th, 2014, 4:55 pm

southy wrote:Sounds good Twobits but what do they do with their Intentional Community?


Sorry, I don't understand? What is Intentional Community? If you meant International, I don't know that either.
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Re: Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Postby southy » Sep 4th, 2014, 6:15 pm

Ahh ... I think we discussed their Intentional Community a few threads back. Notice though that the article it came from the link has been deleted. Very interesting I'd say. The United Church's Naramata Centre plan is to create an Intentional Community where like minded Christians will live and share in the business operations. Again, one of those confusing areas in this whole mess. I still can't see them closing down for a year ... not sure how they could do that. Anyways ... more important happenings occurring like what is going on at city hall - has a Academy Award written all over it.
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Re: Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Postby twobits » Sep 5th, 2014, 7:22 am

southy wrote:Ahh ... I think we discussed their Intentional Community a few threads back. Notice though that the article it came from the link has been deleted. Very interesting I'd say. The United Church's Naramata Centre plan is to create an Intentional Community where like minded Christians will live and share in the business operations. Again, one of those confusing areas in this whole mess. I still can't see them closing down for a year ... not sure how they could do that. Anyways ... more important happenings occurring like what is going on at city hall - has a Academy Award written all over it.


Ok, I am on the same page now. That plan sounds like a commune of sorts or a kibbutz without the farm. The guests (residents) would be providing the labour to operate the facility. Question would be if that would legally circumvent CUPE? I think it would as long as everyone that stayed there had to work there as well as a condition of residence. There could not be guests that paid a higher rate to avoid having to contribute to operations.
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Re: Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Postby cv23 » Sep 5th, 2014, 9:46 am

twobits wrote:
My prediction......this season is gone so they will mothball the place next year and reopen the following year without CUPE employees.



Can't do it. They have to fully close down for two years to shed the union.

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Re: Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Postby southy » Nov 5th, 2014, 10:43 pm

Ok - if anyone can figure out what this organization is doing then please do tell. The Centre is now saying they are broke (again) and unless their friends come up with $500k in the next three weeks they will shut down the Centre.

https://www.naramatacentre.net/Stories?c_id=264


Ahhh - $500k in three weeks??? God business must be good, what the hell am I doing selling widgets lol. I've kinda been following this situation from the beginning but it just seems to get crazier and crazier - I see the employees are still on strike - going on 6 months, I'm sure they are getting just a tad frustrated and angry. So as was voiced in a previous post, shutting down for the short term does not help the Centre with regard to the Union situation or does it? Just trying to figure this out.
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Re: Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Postby Treblehook » Nov 8th, 2014, 3:21 pm

Been trying to figure this out myself for awhile, albeit not too vigorously. On the one hand I read that it is a church entity and at the same time has CUPE employees. What critical service does this Naramata centre provide and from where to their clients come. What do they do? Does the centre receive public funds to operate?
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Re: Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Postby anna nymous » Nov 8th, 2014, 8:37 pm

QUESTIONS -
1. how many acres does this "centre" occupy?
nb - include lakefront property - plus the many acres of level, viable farm (they cut down cherry trees a couple of years ago), etc. They had money to build many buildings including an architect-designed chapel, etc.

2. do they pay taxes on all of it? I see notices from municipalities regarding tax-exempt properties such as Boy Scout camps, etc - however, I don't know how to find similar info for "tax exempt" property tax from the Regional Districts here in BC. (please note I am NOT speaking of CRA - we are referring to BC property tax)

3. and if it is "church / religious tax-free" - and they operate no "church / religious" activities as may be the case in the upcoming months, based on the recent media coverage of an announcement from Naramata Centre - do we see some property tax money from them coming in to the RDOS soon?

We assume even with no taxes paid (on the property, if indeed that is the case) - they have rec'd all the fire, ambulance, water, etc that the rest of us have paid for. So if they are not using the property as long-term intended - who pays?

we do not belong to CUPE - we are simply curious - as one would think most people would be.

we will not be surprised if there is an app for subdivision etc
remember, Naramata RDOS rep at the board is an acclamation this year so not an election topic.

property taxes are a lot of money for many of us - so what about the "centre"?
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Re: Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Postby twobits » Nov 9th, 2014, 5:48 pm

anna nymous wrote:QUESTIONS -
1. how many acres does this "centre" occupy?
nb - include lakefront property - plus the many acres of level, viable farm (they cut down cherry trees a couple of years ago), etc. They had money to build many buildings including an architect-designed chapel, etc.

2. do they pay taxes on all of it? I see notices from municipalities regarding tax-exempt properties such as Boy Scout camps, etc - however, I don't know how to find similar info for "tax exempt" property tax from the Regional Districts here in BC. (please note I am NOT speaking of CRA - we are referring to BC property tax)

3. and if it is "church / religious tax-free" - and they operate no "church / religious" activities as may be the case in the upcoming months, based on the recent media coverage of an announcement from Naramata Centre - do we see some property tax money from them coming in to the RDOS soon?

We assume even with no taxes paid (on the property, if indeed that is the case) - they have rec'd all the fire, ambulance, water, etc that the rest of us have paid for. So if they are not using the property as long-term intended - who pays?

we do not belong to CUPE - we are simply curious - as one would think most people would be.

we will not be surprised if there is an app for subdivision etc
remember, Naramata RDOS rep at the board is an acclamation this year so not an election topic.

property taxes are a lot of money for many of us - so what about the "centre"?


All of your questions could be answered in less time than it took to type your post by calling the RDOS office.
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Re: Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Postby southy » Nov 9th, 2014, 6:55 pm

Twobits - I get it, however there is a but to your suggestion. Have you honestly tried calling the RDOS to get information over the phone? Almost impossible. Hell, I went in there looking for information and all I got was some guy going sideways on me for asking afew questions he didn't like. Don't think it's that simple. We think the City of Penticton is bad - try the RDOS.

As far as Anna the poster goes - I get what this individual is saying, unfortunately, I don't have the information to answer their questions and I'm sure that those in charge at Naramata Centre would definitely stay away from any tax question with what is going on.
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Re: Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Postby twobits » Nov 9th, 2014, 7:43 pm

southy wrote:Twobits - I get it, however there is a but to your suggestion. Have you honestly tried calling the RDOS to get information over the phone? Almost impossible. Hell, I went in there looking for information and all I got was some guy going sideways on me for asking afew questions he didn't like. Don't think it's that simple. We think the City of Penticton is bad - try the RDOS.

As far as Anna the poster goes - I get what this individual is saying, unfortunately, I don't have the information to answer their questions and I'm sure that those in charge at Naramata Centre would definitely stay away from any tax question with what is going on.


Southy, I do get it. That is why when I want an answer I do not call the receptionist at the main land line for the RDOS. When you do that, you get a low level employee that is doing her best while handling a switchboard of incoming calls. The more productive avenue is to go to the RDOS website and narrow down who could answer the question you have. If you target a person, ask the receptionist to put you thru. You will either get them or a voice mail. Ask them to call you if you get a voice mail without asking your question. If they don't know what you want, they will answer your call rather than avoid an uncomfortable subject.
My first choice for answers on this topic would be the RDOS Director for Naramata. Here is her contact info...Karla can be reached at 250-809-2557 or [email protected].
If she does not answer within 24 hrs then I would call French, the CAO. If he does not answer within 24 hrs....then call Pendigraff, the RDOS Chairman.
End result is that within 24 to 48 hrs you will have your answer. At 72 hrs with no response you ask Pendigraff why as a taxpayer you are being circle jerked and I guarantee you......you will get your answer. Works for me every time when you can state and prove you tried the hierarchy.
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Re: Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Postby southy » Jan 21st, 2015, 8:40 pm

Someone called it way back when. Today the Board of Directors of the Naramata Centre announced that the Centre will cease operation immediately. https://www.naramatacentre.net/Stories?c_id=284

When I went to MyNaramata (a community website) I see that the editor has placed the blame on union members. Hummm - something not right there. Wonder who is driving the story??

I have tried understanding this situation from the beginning but it just seemed to get more and more muddied and confusing, perhaps just the way the United Church intended things to be.

A real loss because from what I understand this place was special to many many people in both Alberta and BC.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes before the "For Sale" signs go up.

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Re: Naramata CUPE workers on strike

Postby totoro » Jan 21st, 2015, 8:53 pm

I'm really sad to hear this - spent a glorious two weeks with the kids at the centre not too many years ago. A very special place.

My first thought is also that the union did no favours for the employer or the workers here, but maybe there is more to it.
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