Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Re: Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Postby mrmagoo » Nov 1st, 2015, 10:27 am

Special treatment hey. Disheartening how easy it is for people who don't experience this type of discrimination to call visible measures put in place to address social attitudes as "special treatment" rather than needed steps to address systemic discrimination and make it clear that heterosexist attitudes are not okay.

Social activism is always required to address issues of systemic discrimination. This is because if you don't fall within a marginalized group and aren't particularly empathetic you won't get how unfair being discriminated against is and the long-lasting impacts it has on our fellow human beings. You don't feel what it is like so you think it is a problem.

Even more, often people have a vested interested in maintaining that others are inferior based on whatever racist/sexist/heterosexist grounds serve their egos. Pushing others into the "out group" reinforces insecure folks that they are, instead, part of the "in group". And those that have power traditionally have fought to maintain it. Largely through denial of the impact of unfair treatment on others. At its most extreme forms this is used to justify things like slavery on the basis of race or unequal treatment on the basis of gender.

It is only when enough people who are not in a marginalized group understand the effects of the discrimination and start to express it, whether through a crosswalk or speaking up against the treatment consistently, that it become socially unacceptable to express heterosexist/bigoted attitudes.

Changes in social attitudes results in things like slavery being abolished, women getting the right to vote, First Nations people's experiences with residential school being acknowledged, and LGBTQ folks feeling like they could stay in Penticton instead of needing to leave.

As members of a society I would suggest that each of us has a responsibility to support measures that show inclusion and acceptance and combat the type of discrimination that is prohibited under human rights legislation: such as discrimination based on sexual orientation, gender, and marital status.

Don't forget that it wasn't that long ago that anyone who got divorced was discriminated against in Canada. And the last residential school only closed in the 1980s. Not to mention the fact that a hotline to report "barbaric cultural practices" was part of an election campaign in 2015.

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Re: Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Postby Drip_Torch » Nov 1st, 2015, 12:12 pm

^^^^ 100% ^^^^
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Re: Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Postby fluffy » Nov 1st, 2015, 5:36 pm

mrmagoo wrote:Social activism is always required to address issues of systemic discrimination.


I won't disagree with that, but doesn't it follow to reason that such activism should be directed at the source of the discrimination ? I don't get how a rainbow sidewalk benefits the goal of social equality for members of the LGBT community.
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Re: Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Postby twobits » Nov 1st, 2015, 6:29 pm

mrmagoo wrote:Social activism is always required to address issues of systemic discrimination.


Painting rainbow cross walks with civic funds is not social activism. It is a hijacking of civic funds that could be better spent elsewhere. Civic is the important distinction here. Our local funding is meant for our local needs....parks, roads, water, sewer, etc. Human rights issues are not a subject where civic politicians have any sway or say in the drafting of any legislation. As such, it is completely inappropriate for any civic funds to be directed to any such cause without a clear mandate from a survey of the whole civic taxpayer base. An election platform stating the desire to get involved would be a good place to start. Until such a thing happens, a council of 5,7, or 9.....has no business deciding for the taxpaying electorate the use of funds for something that is 100% outside of their control as well as 100% outside of their mandate as elected Civic officials.

To me it is no different than having a council of 7 elected where 4 happen to be Evangelical Christians and they vote in favor of a request for signage of anti abortion messages. Or a council of 7 where 4 happen to be believe in staunch liberalism and vote in favor of a request for signage promoting birth control and the right to legal abortions. Neither of the above belong in Civic politics or budgets. Nor do rainbow crosswalks for the same fundamental reason.

And the most valuable affirmation of this point of view comes from a gay male cpl I have been friends with for 25 yrs. I talked to them a few days ago about this cross walk paint issue. I wish I could convey the response with the "gay male" voice cuz that made it even more priceless. B said, " *bleep* the peacock paint, I just wish the town would fix the effin storm drain on the street that keeps flooding our yard every time it rains and a hummingbird needs to take a pizz at the same time".
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Re: Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Postby Drip_Torch » Nov 1st, 2015, 7:10 pm

I don't get how a rainbow sidewalk benefits the goal of social equality for members of the LGBT community.


Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember the LGBT community in Penticton lobbying local government to paint a crosswalk with rainbow colours?

I personally feel the rainbow crosswalk is more to the benefit of the greater community than the LGBT community. It's both an expression of inclusiveness and a subtle reminder; just as it takes several colours to make a complete rainbow, it takes several different colours to make a community complete.

I see it more as our leaders taking a leadership role and to that I say kudos.
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Re: Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Postby fluffy » Nov 1st, 2015, 7:47 pm

Drip_Torch wrote:Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember the LGBT community in Penticton lobbying local government to paint a crosswalk with rainbow colours?

I personally feel the rainbow crosswalk is more to the benefit of the greater community than the LGBT community. It's both an expression of inclusiveness and a subtle reminder; just as it takes several colours to make a complete rainbow, it takes several different colours to make a community complete.

I see it more as our leaders taking a leadership role and to that I say kudos.


So it's not there to benefit the LGBTcommunity, it's there to make the rest of us feel good about our social maturity ? Or more to the point, to make us appear socially mature ?
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Re: Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Postby twobits » Nov 1st, 2015, 7:57 pm

Drip_Torch wrote:

I see it more as our leaders taking a leadership role and to that I say kudos.


And I see it as a place where are Civic leaders have no jurisdiction or say in the matter. Further, it is not within their mandate of operating the City or dispersing it's funds.
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Re: Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Postby Osoyoos_Familyof4 » Nov 1st, 2015, 8:03 pm

I gotta say, I just don't "get it" but I'm totally willing to be convinced.

I will preface what I'm going to say here (if you believe me fine, if you don't look at my previous posts as evidence) ... But I am a really liberal leaning gal. I really do embrace equality, freedom and social justice etc. I really do have friends of every type, colour and sexual preferences. I'm not one of those folks who just say that, I really do have gay friends, several in fact, and I absolutely believe in the support of gay people to have every single right that a heterosexual has from marriage to adoption to tax benefits.

But I do not get the Rainbow Crosswalks because:

Reason#1 - I just don't think they do what they're supposed to do. I think what advances the rights of gay people is legislation. I think people's attitudes sometimes follow the lead of the law, not a Rainbow Crosswalk! I just don't see anyone changing their minds about homosexuals from a Rainbow Crosswalk.

Reason#2 - I think the Rainbow Crosswalk is a waste of taxpayers money. If a special interest group wants to paint a Rainbow Crosswalk somewhere and applies to the city for that right....fine, no problem, let them. But they have to maintain it according to the standards of the city. And they should have to leave a deposit with the city to return it back to "normal" should they decide they don't want to maintain it anymore. It's not the burden on the city to provide resources to special interest groups. We aren't talking a law here, we are just saying "hey" I accept you and I find a Rainbow Crosswalk is a pretty pithy way of expressing support. I'd rather see a city support gay rights by providing safety and security to gay folks to congregate without fear of violence, or to support a campaign of non-harassment to people living an alternative lifestyle.

Reason#3 - I actually think the Rainbow Crosswalk as a positive preaches to the converted. Those who support it are already likely gay-positive. Some of those who oppose it are (like me) more opposed based on logical grounds of efficacy versus money spent. And another theory is that those opposed to it are maybe just not there yet, and see the Rainbow Crosswalk as a decisive issue being thrust upon them by a minority. No matter what, this just isn't the best tactic to "getting them there" in terms of changing the way they think.

I think real gay positivity will happen at the hands of the government passing laws, and then gay folks living their lives in the way in which they want to and in a way in which affords them them the same security as heterosexuals.

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Re: Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Postby LANDM » Nov 1st, 2015, 8:14 pm

image.png

This is an example of grants for the city of Kelowna for 2015. I'm sure everyone is supportive of every grant out there, right?
These are straight cash grants given. Not a bit of paint.
Yes, I realize this is a Penticton thread, but the concept is the same and I will leave it up to others to navigate the Penticton site. I know the Kelowna one better.
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Re: Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Postby LANDM » Nov 1st, 2015, 8:19 pm

george~ wrote:Lets be honest, we have enough distracted drivers on the roads the last thing we need is another distraction, those involved in this stupid rainbow painting crosswalk *bleep* should really get your *bleep* together.


Perhaps those that can be distracted by a colorful crosswalk should hand in their licence if they are distracted that easily to be a danger? People seem to be just fine everywhere else so that argument is a bit lame.
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Re: Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Postby twobits » Nov 1st, 2015, 8:21 pm

Osoyoos_Familyof4 wrote:I gotta say, I just don't "get it" but I'm totally willing to be convinced.

I will preface what I'm going to say here (if you believe me fine, if you don't look at my previous posts as evidence) ... But I am a really liberal leaning gal. I really do embrace equality, freedom and social justice etc. I really do have friends of every type, colour and sexual preferences. I'm not one of those folks who just say that, I really do have gay friends, several in fact, and I absolutely believe in the support of gay people to have every single right that a heterosexual has from marriage to adoption to tax benefits.

But I do not get the Rainbow Crosswalks because:

Reason#1 - I just don't think they do what they're supposed to do. I think what advances the rights of gay people is legislation. I think people's attitudes sometimes follow the lead of the law, not a Rainbow Crosswalk! I just don't see anyone changing their minds about homosexuals from a Rainbow Crosswalk.

Reason#2 - I think the Rainbow Crosswalk is a waste of taxpayers money. If a special interest group wants to paint a Rainbow Crosswalk somewhere and applies to the city for that right....fine, no problem, let them. But they have to maintain it according to the standards of the city. And they should have to leave a deposit with the city to return it back to "normal" should they decide they don't want to maintain it anymore. It's not the burden on the city to provide resources to special interest groups. We aren't talking a law here, we are just saying "hey" I accept you and I find a Rainbow Crosswalk is a pretty pithy way of expressing support. I'd rather see a city support gay rights by providing safety and security to gay folks to congregate without fear of violence, or to support a campaign of non-harassment to people living an alternative lifestyle.

Reason#3 - I actually think the Rainbow Crosswalk as a positive preaches to the converted. Those who support it are already likely gay-positive. Some of those who oppose it are (like me) more opposed based on logical grounds of efficacy versus money spent. And another theory is that those opposed to it are maybe just not there yet, and see the Rainbow Crosswalk as a decisive issue being thrust upon them by a minority. No matter what, this just isn't the best tactic to "getting them there" in terms of changing the way they think.

I think real gay positivity will happen at the hands of the government passing laws, and then gay folks living their lives in the way in which they want to and in a way in which affords them them the same security as heterosexuals.


That post is a bottom of the 12th inning grand slam. 10 fer friggen 10!!!
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Re: Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Postby Osoyoos_Familyof4 » Nov 1st, 2015, 8:57 pm

I can't argue that cities do support "some" special interest groups. But from the list that one of the above posters posted I might argue that:

You can be a homosexual with children and support A children's theatre (or other art endeavour).

You can be a homosexual "Spinner" of yarn and handiwork.

You can be a homosexual Asian.

You can be a homosexual ---------- (fill in the blank)

But a Rainbow Crosswalk is an inherently a one-issue statement of purpose. It absolutely says that homosexuals matter and we support them. I happen to agree with this statement, but spending public money on such a statement with virtually no concrete pay-off? ..... Meh.
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Re: Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Postby george~ » Nov 1st, 2015, 9:07 pm

To everyone who is in favor of rainbow crosswalks, your all wrong, it's a driving surface there should be no excessive paint, safety comes first.
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Re: Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Postby LANDM » Nov 1st, 2015, 9:12 pm

Osoyoos_Familyof4 wrote:I can't argue that cities do support "some" special interest groups. But from the list that one of the above posters posted I might argue that:

You can be a homosexual with children and support A children's theatre (or other art endeavour).

You can be a homosexual "Spinner" of yarn and handiwork.

You can be a homosexual Asian.

You can be a homosexual ---------- (fill in the blank)

But a Rainbow Crosswalk is an inherently a one-issue statement of purpose. It absolutely says that homosexuals matter and we support them. I happen to agree with this statement, but spending public money on such a statement with virtually no concrete pay-off? ..... Meh.

Or, you can be someone who does or doesn't support funding for some or all special interest groups. Consistency would be nice.
I think spinning and yarning, for example, is incredibly special-interest. As I've said in other posts, if we lived in a fiscally perfect world, no special interest groups would be funded. We don't, and these are not the only groups, by the way. So, considering that we already give out HUGE amounts to many many special interest groups, I don't have a problem with a bit of paint on a crosswalk.
It hasn't negatively affected me and I don't anticipate that it will in the future.
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Re: Penticton embraces rainbows too?

Postby LANDM » Nov 1st, 2015, 9:18 pm

george~ wrote:To everyone who is in favor of rainbow crosswalks, your all wrong, it's a driving surface there should be no excessive paint, safety comes first.

So what is it?
Because of the distraction as you said first?
Because of the paint because you said that next?
Because it's a colour and you think coloured paint offers less friction than white paint?
Becuase you feel that coloured paint is "excessive" in some way?
Becuase you don't think any crosswalks should exist?
If safety comes first, we need painted crosswalks don't we?

But, it's good to know that "your all wrong"......gotta ask though, our "what" is all wrong? It doesn't really make sense.
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