Bridge / lights to nowhere

Re: Bridge/ lights to nowhere

Postby Static » Oct 7th, 2015, 12:20 pm

Ekalahaks wrote:We live in such an "Instant Gratification" time in the world and society. If things aren't 100%/FULLY/COMPLETELY/NO EXCEPTIONS accomplished in record speed (That speed seems always to be infinitely different - relative to each individual's own opinion) or immediately meet the precise merits and checklist of expectations (Again, that seem to always be infinitely different - relative to each individual's own opinion), then all of a sudden the floodgates of dissatisfaction, disappointment, blame and shame open wide... rarely is it ever a positive reaction... We tend to be a culture where no one gets the benefit of the doubt, because we are constantly fed images and stories of corruption and unkindness. We give people nanoseconds to prove themselves and before ever getting that chance, so many things are discarded. It takes a strong heart to trust others intentions. I just think we sometimes don't wait long enough to let that happen.

The entitlement that some people seem to feel when something does not appeal to their own needs or thoughts, that it is immediately "wrong" seems to uncover a more troubling problem. The lack of faith and goodwill out there.

I am not talking about faith in a higher power...I am sticking just to the "faith in your fellow human" right now. God knows we need more of it these days (yes, pun intended)

Why are so many so quick to jump on people/organizations for trying something "new" or developing their ideas, plans and hopes? Not everybody in business is corrupt and filled with blind greed... In fact the majority of humans just want to make things better... but the media and social sites like this tend to attract the speculators in many more numbers than the "faithful" it seems.

I wish to register myself in the "faithful" category today. I wish this particular "big picture" endeavor success no matter what it will eventually look like because I believe there are more good people trying to make a difference and do something worthwhile than there are people just wasting time and money. It won't happen over night.

It is not a "bridge to nowhere"... It is a bridge in its truest form. A symbol of future intentions. A tool to make things move forward. Without it, the momentum of this idea, the goal, the dream just won't happen. It had to start with the bridge - without it, then this whole this idea would go nowhere.

I applaud those that are mindful enough to act on their dreams and goals and, until they prove me otherwise, I have faith in them to do a good thing with this particular project.


Huh?????
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Re: Bridge/ lights to nowhere

Postby mrmagoo » Oct 7th, 2015, 12:58 pm

Make sense to me. I also agree that this bridge is likely a big step forward for PIB and a symbol of a move to a better future.

I know how much work it is to make a business or big project go, never mind one on reserve which seems way harder to me, and I value what must have gone into making that bridge happen highly.

I hope they do find tenants if they haven't already. Penticton really has nowhere else to expand unless parts of the reserve are opened up for development. Their success is our success.

Osoyoos Indian Band is one of the largest employers in that area and contributes significantly to the local economy. I hope PIB gets there. They have already come a long long way from seven years ago: http://mgcltd.blogspot.ca/2007/09/tale- ... bands.html

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Re: Bridge/ lights to nowhere

Postby Dawnland » Oct 7th, 2015, 7:12 pm

I would like to draw your attention to the possibility that the development plan isn't catering to a single retail industry. Have any of you been to Uptown in Victoria? Or many of the micro communities that are built with all amenities? Understanding that the big box lifestyle is passe, there are many community-making development types that encourage a pedestrian lifestyle with %100 new construction. With that amount of space they could have an entire community, with their own shops and services. There are no exclusive stores in the Okanagan. Apple, Tiffany, Jaguar, are just some of the stores that would like to have a summer tourist / convention town to cater to the jet-set wine lovers. Those Skaha Hills units are selling out as soon as they become available and there is also a huge condo building and convention centre planned. I know there are going to be people to trash on it regardless of what is true but I'm looking forward to seeing it.

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Re: Bridge/ lights to nowhere

Postby Madhue » Oct 7th, 2015, 7:17 pm

Dawnland wrote:. I know there are going to be people to trash on it regardless of what is true but I'm looking forward to seeing it.
isnt it funny how they will slam the Band for not moving forward, then slam it for moving forward, slam it for wanting to be self sufficient and then slam it cause it's not... I think they're just Cowboys and still trying to pick fights with the Indians.
"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
- General George Patton Jr

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Re: Bridge/ lights to nowhere

Postby Anonymous123 » Oct 7th, 2015, 8:50 pm

Ideal location for a large Casino/Hotel/Convention Centre.
We See
We Judge

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Re: Bridge/ lights to nowhere

Postby pentona » Oct 7th, 2015, 9:07 pm

Anonymous123 wrote:Ideal location for a large Casino/Hotel/Convention Centre.


Excellent idea. Lots of Casino/hotels are on Native lands in Washington State. Most, in fact, I believe.

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Re: Bridge/ lights to nowhere

Postby twobits » Oct 8th, 2015, 6:09 pm

mrmagoo wrote:

We don't use taxpayer money to enrich a private individuals through infrastructure projects.


Really? Would you care to share with us who owns the lands that this bridge goes to? MY understanding is that non of it is PIB controlled lands but rather privately held locatee lands. Just like the lands that Boonstock were on that the PIB Council had no say over it's use. They could support or not, but the locatee owner had the final say on what went down. It seems rather clear to me that it was a large sum of taxpayer money that is going to enrich private individuals rather than the PIB population. Excepting taxes they might realize on higher use of lands if anything actually happens.
mrmagoo wrote:
There has to be a sound business case as to how a development will pay back infrastructure costs or, more frequently, the developer has to pay all or part of the cost of the infrastructure - particularly a bridge.

Makes sense to me.


Ya, makes sense to me as well. Except what seems to be absent here is the sound business plan you refer to. Did I miss something here or am I just not hearing of these great developments (with bridge now in place and every developer has known it would be at this date about two years ago) that are going to pay for these infrastructure costs? You are also correct in stating that it is the developer that has to pay all or part of the cost of infrastructure....particularly a bridge. Please tell us mentally challenged folk were the damn business plan is, who are the principal beneficiaries of this infrastructure if not private locatee land owners, and when they will be paying/contributing to the servicing contract that is supposed to compensate Penticton taxpayers for their extension of servicing to this (current) bridge to no where? This is a proverbial and classic "build it and they will come" with "other peoples money" and "repayment to be announced at a later date".

Have tasted too much fish soup to not be jaded about funding such as this.
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Re: Bridge/ lights to nowhere

Postby mrmagoo » Oct 8th, 2015, 6:30 pm

I understand there is a contribution by locatees on the other side in the form of land for the bridge. Do you have information to the contrary?

I also understand that PIB stands to benefit from significant commercial property tax revenues and the PIB community overall from whatever jobs might result.

I also understand that this bridge has been a long time in the making. The locatees on the other side of the channel got cut off when the channel was built and they were promised access by the federal and provincial governments. Slightly different scenario than the Kampe development in Westbench.

"Access to the land that would be serviced by the bridge was cut off when the Okanagan River was channelized in the 1950s to help control flooding.

Okanagan-Coquihalla MP Dan Albas said federal support for the project recognizes the loss of access and is intended to help the PIB make better use of its assets to become more self-sufficient like neighbouring bands in Osoyoos and West Kelowna."
http://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/news/250982711.html

And:

“What I like about this project (is) at the bottom of it, this is really about ensuring the reconciliation we talk about is actually taking place in real terms,” Valcourt said following the announcement outside the PIB school.

He acknowledged part of that reconciliation means restoring access to land presently used for cattle grazing that was cut off when the Okanagan River was channelized in the 1950s.

”This could create, within the next 10 years, about 700 jobs within the area,” added Valcourt, whose ministry also chipped in $500,000 for design and engineering of the bridge."

http://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/news/268738071.html

"Kruger said some $2 million in provincial funding, part of a previous conditional government grant covering access to the locatee lands cut off by the River Channel, will also be allocated to the project. The eight locatee land owners from the band will also contribute, he added.

“All the locatees in the development will start putting money towards the bridge once they start doing their developments,” he said. “There will be development cost charges, just like anywhere else.”

http://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/news/ ... f6878.html

My understanding is that the business plan, in addition to addressing historic legal claims for access, projects significant benefits not only to PIB, but to the City of Penticton as well.

http://www.netnewsledger.com/2014/07/27 ... penticton/
http://www.pentictonherald.ca/opinion/a ... 27c7a.html
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 32551.html

Google not working for you?

And I guess time will tell what happens for the lands but I'm hoping for a win:win.

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Re: Bridge/ lights to nowhere

Postby onestop67 » Oct 9th, 2015, 2:35 am

sku wrote:Is the city of penticton really going to activate the lights on the bridge that literally does not have a road on the other side of it? Stop the flow of traffic on hwy 97? For what? A dog walker? Not sure if you are even allowed on the path on the other side anymore. This bridge is such a waste of time. Yes we get access to fresh (native) land, but all of our malls have many vacancies and should be filled first. For decades people could turn onto the channel parkway from green avenue without a light, but now we are stopping a major artery of a highway for no reason. No car will be coming or going to nowhere. We are not getting a Costco, or any big desired retailer. We are a small town that has had a population of 35K that really hasn't changed in the 30 years I've lived here. Malls are a thing of the past, online shopping is replacing them. But I'm glad I will be stopped on my way to work daily, for NOTHING.



Simple reply, to a simple mind.

The new light will be a blinking green, until development on the other side warrants it, to be a full blown light.

After that, I have know idea what you are rambling on about dog walking, access to native land, or how OUR land has all these vacancies. Now we have to drive by malls and Costco that isn't here, and no more a small town, because we have no bigger retailer. FREAK!!!

You lost me when you became racist and then rambling without making any sense.

My highway has no ice cream, and never a Costco, and malls are a thing of the past, because Penticton used to have a population of 35,000. lmao WHAT???
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Re: Bridge/ lights to nowhere

Postby onestop67 » Oct 9th, 2015, 2:38 am

Anonymous123 wrote:Ideal location for a large Casino/Hotel/Convention Centre.


I do lots of work for East Indians...

I've been asked are they "Us" Indians, or come to our Casino Indians???

lmao
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Re: Bridge/ lights to nowhere

Postby JagXKR » Oct 9th, 2015, 7:26 am

Umm...not flashing green today. Flashing yellow for Hwy 97. Flashing red for Green Ave. I will avoid that intersection like the plague if it is a flashing green for 97 because the acceleration lane for left turn from Green to southbound 97 is gone. Accidents will occur big time without the lights working.
I have a feeling that they will be up and running today as they were installing the warning lights for southbound 97 when I drove by. The northbound 97 warning lights have been there for a while.
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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Re: Bridge/ lights to nowhere

Postby Tony » Oct 9th, 2015, 8:34 am

JagXKR wrote:Umm...not flashing green today. Flashing yellow for Hwy 97. Flashing red for Green Ave. I will avoid that intersection like the plague if it is a flashing green for 97 because the acceleration lane for left turn from Green to southbound 97 is gone. Accidents will occur big time without the lights working.
I have a feeling that they will be up and running today as they were installing the warning lights for southbound 97 when I drove by. The northbound 97 warning lights have been there for a while.


If the lights are flashing then it would operate as it has for the past 15 years or however long the Channel Parkway has been there, and I don't recall accidents occurring "big time" then. It would be taken as an uncontrolled intersection if that's the case.
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Re: Bridge/ lights to nowhere

Postby Tony » Oct 9th, 2015, 8:36 am

mrmagoo wrote:"Access to the land that would be serviced by the bridge was cut off when the Okanagan River was channelized in the 1950s to help control flooding.


What about the bridge 2 km down the road?????? Isn't that access? Or the road behind the airport, isn't that access? Or the service road down the West side of the Chanel. Couldn't that be used as an access road?
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Re: Bridge/ lights to nowhere

Postby mrmagoo » Oct 9th, 2015, 11:34 am

Tony wrote:What about the bridge 2 km down the road?????? Isn't that access? Or the road behind the airport, isn't that access? Or the service road down the West side of the Chanel. Couldn't that be used as an access road?


Haven't we had this conversation already Tony? I seem to remember we have.

Are you confirming that an emergency service path along the channel provides legal access to these lands? Or that the turn off to this area from the highway is permitted to traffic even or can be permitted or is not actually on someone's private land or belongs to the province or the federal government? I don't have time to google this again right now but I suggest you do. My recollection is that there was no legal access available to these lots, nor could it be provided as suggested.
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Re: Bridge/ lights to nowhere

Postby XT225 » Oct 9th, 2015, 1:36 pm

I haven't been down that way for a while but if they activate the lights fully, to allow Green Ave traffic to enter the highway safely, rather than just flashing lights, that would be good. Could prevent quite a few accidents.
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