City picks up prime land

Re: City picks up prime land

Postby mrmagoo » Oct 8th, 2015, 8:08 pm

I think if the business case supports another site for the waterslides with the same ROI no reason not to do it somewhere else.

Given that the land lease will be lower rate due to seasonal/recreational use and the taxation as well I wonder how viable it is without the marina/restaurant? I also wonder about water. Waterslides use a lot of water. They could treat their own water if drawing from Skaha or a well on-site, using treated city water is expensive. Anyone know anything about that?
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Re: City picks up prime land

Postby Madhue » Oct 8th, 2015, 8:32 pm

jamapple wrote:Madhue.....simple question again....would it still be considered building Penticton if this plan was put on another piece of land, other than the proposed site?
it would considered a pain in the a$$. Wasting time, money and resources making sure a second and third option would suffice appease the naysayers who only appear when something other than pickle ball courts are being drafted up.
I think people need to stop wasting our tax dollars by undermining our elected bodies, if they did their job legally, ethically and in the best interest of the citizens we reward them with another term if not kick them to the curb. But let them do their job
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Re: City picks up prime land

Postby twobits » Oct 8th, 2015, 9:10 pm

mrmagoo wrote:
Given that the land lease will be lower rate due to seasonal/recreational use and the taxation as well I wonder how viable it is without the marina/restaurant?


You seem to have missed some of my previous posts. In conversation with a principal of Trio, he clearly stated that the Water Slides were the key to revenue for the project. He said without the Water Slides, the project would not be viable. They are counting on the water slides to subsidize the rest of their development plans.
I challenge you to speak with them and get a different response.
What this tells me is that the Marina and Restaurant is fluff to them as long as they have a three month cash cow on cheap water front lands.
What is a Marina? Boat slips for rent. Break even. What is a restaurant? BBQ and a hot dog steamer meet the definition. Is there a definition of what they will operate that the City gets a cut of revenue from? Read the agreement. Who cares? 50% cash business. Who is going to audit this?
The City is absolutely nuts to enter into a profit sharing agreement for lands such as this that include cash for water slide tickets, cash for restaurant, cash for mini golf, cash for concession sales. This is a classic case of management that fell off some turnip truck last night.
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Re: City picks up prime land

Postby XT225 » Oct 8th, 2015, 9:20 pm

twobits wrote:
The City is absolutely nuts to enter into a profit sharing agreement for lands such as this that include cash for water slide tickets, cash for restaurant, cash for mini golf, cash for concession sales. This is a classic case of management that fell off some turnip truck last night.


Now that made me do an instant belly laugh, twobits. Once again..you nailed it!
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Re: City picks up prime land

Postby mrmagoo » Oct 8th, 2015, 10:03 pm

Yes, did not read that. If true then it seems like this is the site for the slides.

You are essentially accusing three local well-established business people of fraud, tax evasion and theft? Totally defamatory and uncalled for.
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Re: City picks up prime land

Postby onestop67 » Oct 9th, 2015, 12:46 am

ToddT wrote:I disagree with the sentiment here. The location of the land, coupled with its lack of use makes perfect sense for the city to pick it up. My only question is why not sooner, so it didn't sit empty for so long. You know what might work there? Waterslides lol.


My thought exactly, before I even read the comments on this thread.
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Re: City picks up prime land

Postby onestop67 » Oct 9th, 2015, 12:50 am

twobits wrote:You seem to have missed some of my previous posts. In conversation with a principal of Trio, he clearly stated that the Water Slides were the key to revenue for the project. He said without the Water Slides, the project would not be viable. They are counting on the water slides to subsidize the rest of their development plans.
I challenge you to speak with them and get a different response.
What this tells me is that the Marina and Restaurant is fluff to them as long as they have a three month cash cow on cheap water front lands.
What is a Marina? Boat slips for rent. Break even. What is a restaurant? BBQ and a hot dog steamer meet the definition. Is there a definition of what they will operate that the City gets a cut of revenue from? Read the agreement. Who cares? 50% cash business. Who is going to audit this?
The City is absolutely nuts to enter into a profit sharing agreement for lands such as this that include cash for water slide tickets, cash for restaurant, cash for mini golf, cash for concession sales. This is a classic case of management that fell off some turnip truck last night.


So let Trio find an alternate property for the cash cow that is the waterpark. If they still want to take on the city lease for the property at Skaha, let them. Upgrade the marina, the restaurant...but if they are only leasing the property to make money from the waterpark, eff off.
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Re: City picks up prime land

Postby rustled » Oct 9th, 2015, 8:55 am

onestop67 wrote:So let Trio find an alternate property for the cash cow that is the waterpark. If they still want to take on the city lease for the property at Skaha, let them. Upgrade the marina, the restaurant...but if they are only leasing the property to make money from the waterpark, eff off.

The water park area will not generate any income. It will just be a nice improvement over what's now parking lot, and free to the public.The income from the water slides will help the investors pay for the rest of the upgrades to the area, including removing asphalt parking lots from areas near the waterfront. The vast majority of the park will be completely unaffected by the lease, and as you so succinctly put it in the thread discussing the inconvenience of having to deal with a change to our garbage collection, life will go on.

Back on topic: We are glad the city purchased this land, and we are optimistic it will be put to good use in the future.
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Re: City picks up prime land

Postby twobits » Oct 9th, 2015, 6:27 pm

mrmagoo wrote:You are essentially accusing three local well-established business people of fraud, tax evasion and theft? Totally defamatory and uncalled for.


I did nothing of the sort. I merely pointed out that it is dangerous to enter into a profit share based on revenue when a very large chunk of that business is cash transactions. The audit requirements to protect the public interest could very well negate the benefits realized.
Are you suggesting that you would just trust these three business individuals to report revenues accurately because they are well established? If you had any clue about commercial leasing agreements you would know that revenue share agreements are the exception rather than the norm precisely because they are next to impossible to audit. And precisely why CRA devotes more resources towards the scrutiny of businesses that have a high volume of cash transactions. The more common reason for revenue share leases is distressed property where the landowner is willing to assume some extra risk in hopes that the business can become viable and one day move to a fixed payment regardless of revenue.
And it does not even have to be the principals of the business skimming. Case in point....Northlands Colosseum just terminated all of their parking lot cashiers because an estimated 1 million in revenues is missing.
Pull your head out of the sand Magoo.
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Re: City picks up prime land

Postby mrmagoo » Oct 9th, 2015, 7:08 pm

twobits wrote: I merely pointed out that it is dangerous to enter into a profit share based on revenue when a very large chunk of that business is cash transactions.

...If you had any clue about commercial leasing agreements you would know that revenue share agreements are the exception rather than the norm precisely because they are next to impossible to audit.

Pull your head out of the sand Magoo.


1. I read it as you had stated it was insane to enter into this venture on a profit-sharing basis due to cash transactions which I understood to meant that you are asserting an unacceptable risk of theft and intent to defraud CRA. I'm not even sure your assertion that this is a 50% cash business is true given that Canadians generally pay for transactions over $18 with credit, but even if it is fraud and theft can be managed through things like a requirement to give receipts in all cases, matching till amounts to cash at end of day, and the use of sequential wristbands for waterslide admissions. The Northlands Coliseum clearly had some serious management shortcomings and widespread theft going on. They've resolved this.

2. I do know something about commercial leasing. Percentage rent with set base rent us not unusual, particularly in retail. It allows tenants to get a start while permitting the landlord to benefit when they do. I would agree net revenue-sharing deals are something I would avoid, gross is different. I'm not sure why you think gross profit is such a difficult matter to correctly identify, it is not. It is a standard item on any accounting software which is available at the click of a button.
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Re: City picks up prime land

Postby onestop67 » Oct 10th, 2015, 12:26 am

rustled wrote:Back on topic: We are glad the city purchased this land, and we are optimistic it will be put to good use in the future.


First, if you actually read my post, it was in reply to someone else that said the waterslides would be the money maker. All smart people realize that Trio wants the restaurant/pub to make real money.

TRIO can still go pound it. It really will never benefit the city.

This new land purchase is fine. I have no problem with the city buying land.
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Re: City picks up prime land

Postby jamapple » Oct 10th, 2015, 4:28 pm

Madhue wrote: it would considered a pain in the a$$. Wasting time, money and resources making sure a second and third option would suffice appease the naysayers who only appear when something other than pickle ball courts are being drafted up.
I think people need to stop wasting our tax dollars by undermining our elected bodies, if they did their job legally, ethically and in the best interest of the citizens we reward them with another term if not kick them to the curb. But let them do their job


Gotcha. Prime parkland that belongs to everyone should be used first for private ventures. I would have thought it would never have even been an option. But thanks for at least taking the time to come on here and not answer my question.

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