Left on red in Penticton

Re: Left on Red in Penticton.

Postby Ken7 » Dec 17th, 2015, 9:16 pm

Midnite wrote:I always felt the "Left on Red" was common knowledge but I don't believe enough drivers are aware that a solid yellow line allows for passing. The sightlines on Eastside make for plenty of legal passing opportunities .



It depends where you took your drivers training. In many other jurisdictions, it is not permitted.
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Re: Left on Red in Penticton.

Postby Ken7 » Dec 17th, 2015, 9:20 pm

twobits wrote:My second tick off is left hand turns on Main St on a double yellow line. The ignorance of this rule is why Main st Penticton is so friggen grid locked so many times. You can only legally make a left hand turn accross a dbl yellow line when you will not impede any traffic behind you. Main st is pretty much dbl yellow along it's whole length from downtown to Skaha Lake rd. Where it is not dbl yellow will be a street crossing or dedicated turning lanes. What in god's green earth are people thinking when they hold up traffic for three blocks cuz they want to turn into Parker Motors or Burger King for example going north. Just using those as common examples. Go to the next legal street crossing or dedicated turning lane and double back fer christ's sake and keep traffic moving! Unnecessary lane changes are one of the biggest reasons for accidents. People ignorant of this rule are the biggest cause of lane changes and jockeying in traffic. I actually blame the RCMP for not enforcing and ticketing more people for it.



Driving on laned roadway
151 A driver who is driving a vehicle on a laned roadway

(a) must not drive it from one lane to another when a broken line only exists between the lanes, unless the driver has ascertained that movement can be made with safety and will in no way affect the travel of another vehicle,

(b) must not drive it from one lane to another if that action necessitates crossing a solid line,


(c) must not drive it from one lane to another without first signalling his or her intention to do so by hand and arm or approved mechanical device in the manner prescribed by sections 171 and 172,

(d) when approaching an intersection intending to turn left must drive the vehicle in the centre lane or in the lane nearest the centre of the roadway on the right hand half of the highway,

(e) when approaching an intersection intending to turn right must drive the vehicle in the lane nearest to the right hand side of the roadway,

(f) must not pass a vehicle on the left if that action necessitates driving on that part of the highway designated for travel in the opposite direction, and

(g) if a traffic control device directs slow moving traffic to use a designated lane, must when driving slowly drive the vehicle in that lane only.
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Re: Left on red in Penticton

Postby Brenky » Dec 19th, 2015, 9:40 pm

I really wish more people knew about left on red. There were a few instances today where I had to wait an extra light cycle to go straight through because the car in front of me was turning onto Martin or Main. It's not a huge deal, I'm not impatient, but I'm sure the left turners would appreciate to know (I sure was when I found out!). Also for my sake when I do it, so I don't get honked at by the car behind me for "running" a red.
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Re: Left on red in Penticton

Postby twobits » Dec 21st, 2015, 3:28 pm

[quote="I Think"]
You may cross double yellow lines if you are turning into a road or driveway.


Section 155 of the British Columbia Motor Vehicle Act sets out the law regarding highway lines. This section provides that if a highway is marked with a solid double line, the driver of a vehicle must drive to the right of the line only. If marked with a broken line combined with a solid line, the driver on the side of the broken line must drive to the right of the double line, except when passing an overtaken vehicle, while the driver on the side of the solid line must drive to the right of the line, except only when finishing the passing of an overtaken vehicle. If marked with a single line, broken or solid, the driver must drive to the right of the line, except only when passing an overtaken vehicle.

The latter two provisions—those concerning double lines consisting of a broken line and a solid line, and those concerning single lines, broken or solid are qualified with exceptions for motorist who “is avoiding an obstruction on the highway”, or has to “leave a highway”. In both situations, there is an onus on the driver to ascertain that “the movement can be made with safety, and does so without unreasonably affecting the travel of another vehicle”. (Sections 155(2) and 156)

The ICBC driving guide, “RoadSense for Drivers”, has summarized these provisions as follows: “Most drivers expect other traffic to turn at an intersection. Sometimes you may wish to turn left in the middle of a block, such as into a driveway. While it is safer to plan your route so that you can make a right turn, you may turn left—including turning left over a solid double yellow line—provided you do this carefully and safely and don’t impede other traffic, and there are no signs prohibiting such turns.”


And also read in context with sec 156

156 If the driver of a vehicle is causing the vehicle to enter or leave a highway and the driver has ascertained that he or she might do so with safety and does so without unreasonably affecting the travel of another vehicle, the provisions of sections 151 and 155 are suspended with respect to the driver while the vehicle is entering or leaving the highway.

I think it is quite clear that if your left hand turn across a dbl yellow into a driveway mid block is not permitted unless you can do so without impeding any traffic behind you. If even one car has to stop behind you while you are trying to turn left across a dbl yellow line into the Timmies driveway, you are impeding traffic and the turn is illegal.
I am absolutely positive about this because I have also twice witnessed our local RCMP at the Main St entrance of the Apple Plaza set this trap. Every south bound vehicle that made that left hand turn into the Plaza and did not hold up a car behind them was waived thru into the parking lot. Every car that held up a vehicle behind them for their turn, was directed over to the empty corner of the lot where 3 members were getting writers cramps issuing tickets for an illegal left hand turn.
Last edited by twobits on Dec 21st, 2015, 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Left on Red in Penticton.

Postby Midnite » Dec 21st, 2015, 5:07 pm

Ken7 wrote:

It depends where you took your drivers training. In many other jurisdictions, it is not permitted.


Are you referring to other provinces/ states? This is a South Okanagan forum.
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Re: Left on red in Penticton

Postby Tony » Dec 21st, 2015, 7:00 pm

You are NOT allowed, however, to turn left onto the Channel Parkway at Green if the light is RED. Sheesh... some people.
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Re: Left on red in Penticton

Postby twobits » Dec 21st, 2015, 9:08 pm

Tony wrote:You are NOT allowed, however, to turn left onto the Channel Parkway at Green if the light is RED. Sheesh... some people.


That Tony, is a habit that must be unlearned from past experience. That whole Channel Green Ave intersection is a cluster F right now. And IMO, until the bridge to nowhere actually goes to somewhere, those lights should be flashing greens north south and flashing red coming off Green onto Channel Parkway.
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Re: Left on red in Penticton

Postby Tony » Dec 22nd, 2015, 6:48 am

I disagree. Those lights are exceptionally obvious. I was driving in town long before the Channel Parkway was ever there. You have had to stop at that intersection ever since it was built. The lights didn't just magically appear one day, they took a few months, and anyone who says they "forgot the lights were there" shouldn't be driving as they may forget the lights at Eckhardt and the Channel Parkway were there just as easily.

I've timed the lights at Green. The longest I've had to wait is around 90 seconds. It's way safer now and as much as I hated the idea of the lights there, they don't bother me at all anymore. The only reason that people are mad about them is that they don't like change, and so they rebel by running the light.
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Re: Left on red in Penticton

Postby twobits » Dec 22nd, 2015, 8:05 pm

Tony wrote:I disagree. Those lights are exceptionally obvious. I was driving in town long before the Channel Parkway was ever there. You have had to stop at that intersection ever since it was built.


Yes, I agree. We have always had to stop on Green Ave when wanting to make a left turn onto Channel Parkway. And we still do with the new lights. The difference now being that every time a vehicle wanting to make that left on to the Parkway trips the lights to go red for north south traffic on the Hwy for 90 seconds. Why interrupt Hwy flow for that amount of time for one vehicle when it can just stop at a flashing red as it did before, and proceed with the turn when it is safe to do so. Until that bridge actually has vehicles crossing it, it is exactly the same intersection it has been for many years! Why shut the hwy flow off for 90 second periods when a flashing red at Green Ave means stop first, proceed when safe, and flashing greens on the Parkway mean you have the right of way but be alert to cross and merging traffic?
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Re: Left on red in Penticton

Postby Tony » Dec 23rd, 2015, 6:59 am

90 seconds isn't a life changing experience for most people.....

Don't forget, there's another traffic light 2.5 km down the road. I really don't think the one at Green is going to affect anybody's time line. The light is there, work with it, or go down to Warren and wait without a light. Trust me, in the summer with heavy traffic, the light a Green will be awesome.
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Re: Left on red in Penticton

Postby smoky500 » Dec 23rd, 2015, 6:45 pm

might do so with safety and does so without unreasonably affecting the travel of another vehicle

I don't think one vehicle having to stop and wait a few seconds for traffic to pass is unreasonable, if you get 4 or 5 cars being held up for a minute or more, that is becoming unreasonable.
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Re: Left on red in Penticton

Postby twobits » Dec 23rd, 2015, 8:38 pm

Tony wrote:90 seconds isn't a life changing experience for most people.....

Don't forget, there's another traffic light 2.5 km down the road. I really don't think the one at Green is going to affect anybody's time line. The light is there, work with it, or go down to Warren and wait without a light. Trust me, in the summer with heavy traffic, the light a Green will be awesome.


That's kind of what people first said when Harvey thru Kelowna and later Westbank started getting lights at more and more intersections. It is now one of the most abhor d Hwy drives in the Valley.
And don't forget the reason why we built the "Channel Bypass". Bypass being the key descriptive word here. What is the point in building a bypass if you are going to load it with as many lights as the main drag? It defeats the intent of why it was built to begin with......the expedient movement of traffic.
July and August might provide an argument for lights for merging traffic off of Green but right now, and probably the next decade at least, the other ten months of the year should not allow one single left turn vehicle to shut down north south Hwy 97 traffic for 90 seconds. IMO it is far more practical and expecting that the one vehicle have to wait a whole 90 seconds before it is safe to merge on a left hand turn rather than the 10, 20, or 30 vehicles stopped for the turn of that vehicle for 90 secs. And since environment and carbon footprint are so important to us these days.....does it make any sense for 20 cars to idle for 90 seconds or just one for 90 seconds?
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Re: Left on red in Penticton

Postby Tony » Dec 24th, 2015, 8:14 am

twobits wrote:That's kind of what people first said when Harvey thru Kelowna and later Westbank started getting lights at more and more intersections. It is now one of the most abhor d Hwy drives in the Valley.
And don't forget the reason why we built the "Channel Bypass". Bypass being the key descriptive word here. What is the point in building a bypass if you are going to load it with as many lights as the main drag? It defeats the intent of why it was built to begin with......the expedient movement of traffic.
July and August might provide an argument for lights for merging traffic off of Green but right now, and probably the next decade at least, the other ten months of the year should not allow one single left turn vehicle to shut down north south Hwy 97 traffic for 90 seconds. IMO it is far more practical and expecting that the one vehicle have to wait a whole 90 seconds before it is safe to merge on a left hand turn rather than the 10, 20, or 30 vehicles stopped for the turn of that vehicle for 90 secs. And since environment and carbon footprint are so important to us these days.....does it make any sense for 20 cars to idle for 90 seconds or just one for 90 seconds?


It has never been a true "bypass". There are 5 (not counting Green Ave) traffic lights before you get out of Town, and always have been, so that defeats the whole purpose of the bypass. It was, and still is, much faster than the old route of going through the Downtown core, which is where the highway used to take you (at least to Eckhardt, but the Downtown core really tried to drive people through to Westminster in order to get people to shop.)

I have yet to see more than three or four cars waiting for that light at any time. Maybe in the summer you might see 20, but I seriously doubt that.

As far as comparing the Bypass to Kelowna or West Kelowna, that's not an apples/apples thing. Both West Kelowna and Kelowna are like driving through a strip mall. There's a ton of businesses on either side of the road, and people coming and going from them on a regular basis. Kelowna is a sh*tshow because of the sheer volume of traffic, as well as the lack of proper driving etiquette.
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Re: Left on red in Penticton

Postby twobits » Dec 24th, 2015, 3:05 pm

Tony wrote:
It has never been a true "bypass".


Yes it was. When it was built, there was only one intersection that crossed it. At Fairview going across to the rez. Aside from that, it was clear sailing from Skaha Lake to Echardt Ave which was the tie in back to the original Hwy 97 truck route. Green Ave was a dead end, Warren Ave was a merge without lights as it is now. Duncan Ave didn't even connect. It terminated at Fairview. Hastings Ave was the merge only connection back then and before the Duncan Ave re alignment. So yes it was a bypass.
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