School closures - where is public debate?

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twobits
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Re: School closures - where is public debate?

Post by twobits »

Osoyoos_Familyof4 wrote:
I disagree that MLA's should not have any involvement in the region's education needs. They represent the community and ought to be going to bat for us, just like the trustees.

I think that Larson chose to have a press conference in Osoyoos about this funding was the height of chutzpah and really so very embarrassing. She was completely invisible for the entire proceedings of school closure talks. She said outright that she felt it wasn't her jurisdiction to comment.


You may not like to hear it but she was absolutely correct in saying that it was not in her jurisdiction. That is what you are not acknowledging. There is a vast difference between actually lobbying for more Provincial funding for your local school board and criticizing what duly elected Trustee's choose to do with the funding that is currently available. These Trustees were elected (and I use that term loosely because of the apathy of the electorate) to do a job with a presented budget of available funds. The MLA's were not elected to have a seat at that table. Plain and simple and you need to understand that reality and respect the democratic process no matter how flawed it may seem at times. If anything good were to come out of this debate, it will hopefully be more engaged parents when ballots are cast.

Edit to add- I would also like to add that I would as a taxpayer be very upset if our local MLA's publically criticized or tried to influence locally elected civic Councillors on their decisions despite the fact that a significant portion of funding of the Civic budget comes from Municipal Grants. It's called autonomy and democracy. To disagree with that premise is nothing short of lobbying for a top down dictatorship as long as your views are in line with the dictator. As imperfect as the system is, I am thankful that we do have real local people deciding how to spent the allocated dollars even if I do not agree with many of their decisions rather than a chair in Victoria with zero connection to the community.
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rustled
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Re: School closures - where is public debate?

Post by rustled »

twobits wrote:You may not like to hear it but she was absolutely correct in saying that it was not in her jurisdiction. That is what you are not acknowledging. There is a vast difference between actually lobbying for more Provincial funding for your local school board and criticizing what duly elected Trustee's choose to do with the funding that is currently available. These Trustees were elected (and I use that term loosely because of the apathy of the electorate) to do a job with a presented budget of available funds. The MLA's were not elected to have a seat at that table. Plain and simple and you need to understand that reality and respect the democratic process no matter how flawed it may seem at times. If anything good were to come out of this debate, it will hopefully be more engaged parents when ballots are cast.
...

I always hope more people will take an interest, but here in Penticton the closure of Nkwala and the Pen Hi rebuild failed to cause any real change in the apathy. During these times when controversy erupts, there's so much misinformation tossed around regarding what the school board is responsible for, it generally seems to make a bad matter worse. Siddon and Perry were elected as a result of one of the controversies, in a protest vote largely fueled by anger and misinformation. Both politicians assured the public they'd be able to change things, but anyone who really understood the role of a trustee realized they were making promises they'd be unable to keep. People thought that because they were veteran politicians from other arenas, they knew what they were talking about.

In my experience, single-issue candidates are seldom effective once elected, but to his credit Siddon seemed to make a genuine effort to truly understand the school board's role, and to be effective in his position.
There is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - Martin Luther King Jr.
Osoyoos_Familyof4
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Re: School closures - where is public debate?

Post by Osoyoos_Familyof4 »

https://facebc.wordpress.com/2016/05/16 ... ough-spin/

Thought this was a good succinct read
rustled
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Re: School closures - where is public debate?

Post by rustled »

Osoyoos_Familyof4 wrote:https://facebc.wordpress.com/2016/05/16/seeing-through-spin/
Thought this was a good succinct read

I'm curious about how this group defines "cuts". For example, we simply cannot pretend declining enrollment isn't having a significant impact on how taxpayers dollars given to the Province should be directed. There's no context around where a reduction in necessary expenditure becomes a "cut". If we're serving 75% fewer students, would a 5% reduction in the education budget still be considered a "cut"?

Statement #4's a bit problematic. Trotting out the districts which are anomalous to the majority doesn't give us the full picture, does it? And while per-pupil funding isn't perfect, it makes a reasonable amount of sense to provide more funding to districts with more students, and less funding to districts with less. There may be a better way, but this piece doesn't describe it. (And as I understand it, the funding model is already much more complex than this piece leads us to believe. There's an "in protection" period which wasn't in place while I was involved, so while I'm not sure how it applies, it's my understanding it has to do with stabilizing funding for an initial period of time during declining enrollment.)

Nor can we pretend declining enrollment won't have a significant impact on how the education dollars should be spent in most districts in BC. Cutting a program or a school isn't easy, but it simply isn't practical to offer full programs in schools which now have too small a student population to warrant maintaining all the previous programs, or maintaining schools where the population of school-age students no longer warrants one.

Surely families against cutting programs and closing schools must be aware that the taxpayers cannot keep dumping money into the system to maintain it at a level that's no longer warranted. I didn't get a sense of that from this piece, though, so I'll have to explore their website further.
There is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - Martin Luther King Jr.
pentona
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Re: School closures - where is public debate?

Post by pentona »

Interesting today that the Government now has given the money to keep the local schools open. Why did it take them so long to open their wallet? Where did that money come from?

Public Pressure, I would have to say. Squeeky wheel gets the grease? Could an election possibly be just around the corner? :smt045
twobits
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Re: School closures - where is public debate?

Post by twobits »

pentona wrote:Interesting today that the Government now has given the money to keep the local schools open. Why did it take them so long to open their wallet? Where did that money come from?

Public Pressure, I would have to say. Squeeky wheel gets the grease? Could an election possibly be just around the corner? :smt045


Would have to say yeah, squeaky wheel got greased. And that is what is unfortunate. If our government capitulates to a vocal minority to avoid bad press, all is lost for us and democracy. Government is a business and should be run that way. We have plenty of funding for the social aspect of those less fortunate that does not have to be a sound business model. Our school system is not a "social program" however and the reality is that underpopulated schools are not sustainable. The other reality is that gov't subsidies to these schools is just sucking funds away from everything else including true social needs programs. The only beneficiaries of these extra funds are the homeowners in Trout Creek and the West Bench who have elementary school aged children. Neither of which anyone could argue are "low rent districts" in need of support. What these squeaky wheels have accomplished is a waste of precious resources and potentially robbed all other schools and true social need programs so that the parents didn't have to drive their kids another 10 min in a 50k SUV or subject their precious ones to a 10 min bus ride that somehow is normal for 70% of school children in the province.
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Symbonite
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Re: School closures - where is public debate?

Post by Symbonite »

Just a long slow death of the school....Funding enough for probably 2 years. The school is old...and there is not enough kids...

Osoyoos better not hold their breath on this and actually start planning on a school closure unlike this last time.
**Disclaimer: The above statement is in my OPINION only.
twobits
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Re: School closures - where is public debate?

Post by twobits »

Symbonite wrote:Just a long slow death of the school....Funding enough for probably 2 years.


Yup, nothing but money pizzed out the window. Instead of devoting funding to populated consolidated schools, we fund more buildings with their associated utilities, maintenance and staffing requirements than needed so that less than 350 students do not need to take a 10 or 15 minute bus to school and the other 5000 students get to pay for it with crappy text books and dated learning tools like tech and science labs.
I wouldn't mind so much if we were talking about Naramata or Kaleden Schools being rescued as community assets but come on, let's be real here......both Trout Creek and West bench are merely bedroom suburbs of a parent community that are no more special than the families that live out in Garnet Valley or Heritage Hills.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.
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