Penticton losing population

Penticton losing population

Postby BC Dave » Jan 21st, 2016, 9:14 am

I thought with all the new housing construction that Penticton was growing, at least a little. But according to this article we are losing population: http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... htm#156682
And we have been overtaken by West Kelowna, putting us fourth for population in the Okanagan. Interesting...
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Re: Penticton losing population

Postby southy » Jan 21st, 2016, 10:00 am

It would be interesting to see RDOS numbers as I believe the Penticton #'s are Penticton Central. There has definitely been growth in the Naramata, OK Falls, Oliver and Summerland areas that wouldn't show up in the Penticton Numbers.
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Re: Penticton losing population

Postby Anonymous123 » Jan 21st, 2016, 12:27 pm

southy wrote:It would be interesting to see RDOS numbers as I believe the Penticton #'s are Penticton Central. There has definitely been growth in the Naramata, OK Falls, Oliver and Summerland areas that wouldn't show up in the Penticton Numbers.


Don't forget West Bench and the new development on the PIB lands.
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Re: Penticton losing population

Postby twobits » Jan 21st, 2016, 8:57 pm

southy wrote:It would be interesting to see RDOS numbers as I believe the Penticton #'s are Penticton Central. There has definitely been growth in the Naramata, OK Falls, Oliver and Summerland areas that wouldn't show up in the Penticton Numbers.


Yes it is a very misleading number. Population figures as best looked from a regional economic trading zone perspective. One of Pentictons' problems is it's limited land base foot print. Virtually all areas in every direction including the PIB are showing strong growth.
If the City were smart, it would move as quickly as possible to expand the City boundaries and capture the revenues of development and taxation instead of having those lands developed within the RDOS anyway and having a population greater than Penticton itself using all of the civic amenities the 34k of us pay for for free. Old Elvena has harped on this for a while and ex Mayor kimberly as per his guest column yesterday has finally realized the reality as well. The taxes alone have become a disincentive to purchasing a home within City boundaries.
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Re: Penticton losing population

Postby nepal » Jan 21st, 2016, 11:27 pm

.
A stabilized population is a good thing.
.
Carving up more nature, paving it over, filling it with mores cars and pouring more *bleep* into the lakes, is a bad thing.
.
Good that Penticton has minimal housing vacancy at the most beautiful city in the valley.
.
Redevelop the existing city area.
.
Penticton, go for quality, not quantity.

.
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Re: Penticton losing population

Postby fluffy » Jan 22nd, 2016, 9:53 am

nepal wrote:Penticton, go for quality, not quantity.


Wouldn't this have the effect of driving land values even higher, and thus further out of the reach of the younger demographic?
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Re: Penticton losing population

Postby ToddT » Jan 22nd, 2016, 9:55 am

Soon enough most of the old war time houses will be duplexes and fourplexes, or more.
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Re: Penticton losing population

Postby Queen K » Jan 22nd, 2016, 9:58 am

I believe it's way too late for that. Our former neighbours sold here in Kelowna with an intention to buy cheaper in Penticton. They eventually did, but it took longer than they had anticipated and have absolutely had to renovate what they did buy for any modern standard. They have zero yard footprint, a tiny narrow strip of actual land along a sidewalk. Now that can be a good thing for some, but they are accustomed to growing a bit of food.

Their mortgage went down, but by no means are they even close to being out of debt.
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Re: Penticton losing population

Postby twobits » Jan 22nd, 2016, 5:44 pm

nepal wrote:.
A stabilized population is a good thing.
.
Carving up more nature, paving it over, filling it with mores cars and pouring more *bleep* into the lakes, is a bad thing.
.
Good that Penticton has minimal housing vacancy at the most beautiful city in the valley.
.
Redevelop the existing city area.
.
Penticton, go for quality, not quantity.

.


Not everyone shares your dream of living in a box with not a patch of ground for kids or garden. And as Fluff pointed out, restricting expansion only drives up the cost of land and ultimately housing. One cannot lament the lack of affordable housing and also share a vision in common with yours.
Further, as to pouring more *bleep* into the lakes......controlled and smart growth principles address sewage system requirements and treatment. Your draw bridge and moat musing ignores that the development happening outside City boundaries with a few exceptions are septic systems putting raw untreated sewage right into the ground. Is that preferred over a world class sewage treatment plant? The City can control what happens inside the moat but can do little about what happens on just the other side. You can be naive and try to cocoon, but the reality is that this development is happening and is already getting to the point that the actual City boundary is getting rather blurred and unidentifiable by most. The only thing that is defining these neighborhoods is one house getting a City tax notice and the neighbors just down the street getting an RDOS tax notice. 40% cheaper too.
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Re: Penticton losing population

Postby GEW » Jan 22nd, 2016, 10:01 pm

twobits wrote:
Yes it is a very misleading number. Population figures as best looked from a regional economic trading zone perspective. One of Pentictons' problems is it's limited land base foot print. Virtually all areas in every direction including the PIB are showing strong growth.
If the City were smart, it would move as quickly as possible to expand the City boundaries and capture the revenues of development and taxation instead of having those lands developed within the RDOS anyway and having a population greater than Penticton itself using all of the civic amenities the 34k of us pay for for free. Old Elvena has harped on this for a while and ex Mayor kimberly as per his guest column yesterday has finally realized the reality as well. The taxes alone have become a disincentive to purchasing a home within City boundaries.
Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free and only a few minute drive?


I think if the city of Penticton tried to annex communities around it, there would be fierce opposition from those communities.
Penticton city hall has a reputation for sucking its citizens dry with high taxes and electrical rates, in order to pay for things like failed hockey dorms, and useless, unnecessary downtown "improvements". I am sure many people chose to reside outside of city limits to avoid this.
If it is such a drain to the city to have out of town citizens using city amenities, simply charge the RDOS residents more money to use them. If that is not an option, perhaps the city could lobby for transfer payments from the RDOS, or perhaps (best idea yet), rein in their out of control spending.
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Re: Penticton losing population

Postby Queen K » Jan 22nd, 2016, 11:24 pm

When I read "Penticton losing population" I immediately thought that the retirees were passing away at a greater number than the local birthrate and influx combined.
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Re: Penticton losing population

Postby LTD » Jan 22nd, 2016, 11:46 pm

I think if the city of Penticton tried to annex communities around it, there would be fierce opposition from those communities.
Penticton city hall has a reputation for sucking its citizens dry with high taxes and electrical rates, in order to pay for things like failed hockey dorms, and useless, unnecessary downtown "improvements". I am sure many people chose to reside outside of city limits to avoid this.
If it is such a drain to the city to have out of town citizens using city amenities, simply charge the RDOS residents more money to use them. If that is not an option, perhaps the city could lobby for transfer payments from the RDOS, or perhaps (best idea yet), rein in their out of control spending.[/quote]

what city amenities would they be draining exactly, outside city limits means your more than likely on a well pay for your own garbage pickup not on sewer don't have sidewalks and generally don't receive any services from the city what so ever which is fine by me .
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Re: Penticton losing population

Postby GEW » Jan 23rd, 2016, 12:37 am

^^^^^^
You are correct. Most services outside of city limits are paid for by the homeowner anyway, so an annexation is nothing more than a tax grab.
When Elvena Slump drones on about this issue of using city services, she usually mentions the pool, events center and the library. In her mind (and others) nobody outside the city limits should use these facilities. She/they neglect the fact that these facilities are partly funded by the user paying for them, and more users equals more revenue.
I could go on- some people think that outsiders coming to Penticton to shop at Walmart (or whatever) puts a burden on city services-like streets. They forget that these stores pay a business licence, property taxes and electricity to name a few.
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Re: Penticton losing population

Postby nepal » Jan 23rd, 2016, 9:00 am

.
Yes, house prices would definitely go up, as they did at Whistler when growth was capped there. With a cap on growth, in such a great location, city planners can demand and get much higher quality developments, as at Whistler. Some people underestimate the quality potential for Penticton. Where else do you get a city with two amazing lakes, mountains and an incredible climate in Canada... Maybe it could be the Monaco, or Lake Como(Italy), of BC. As for affordable housing, that has long gone and moved on to other locations. Aim toward European quality, rather than American quantity. :D
.
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Re: Penticton losing population

Postby fluffy » Jan 23rd, 2016, 9:18 am

nepal wrote:.
Yes, house prices would definitely go up, as they did at Whistler when growth was capped there. With a cap on growth, in such a great location, city planners can demand and get much higher quality developments, as at Whistler. Some people underestimate the quality potential for Penticton. Where else do you get a city with two amazing lakes, mountains and an incredible climate in Canada... Maybe it could be the Monaco of BC. As for affordable housing, that has long gone and moved on to other locations. Aim toward European quality, rather than American quantity. :D
.


I hear stories of workers at the lower end of the wage spectrum at Whistler living in their cars because rental rates are so high. Penticton has "quality" choices available, but I wonder if that particular market would bear the expansion you envision. More importantly, expanding the "quality" market at the expense of more modest, more affordable housing excludes those without the advantage of existing equity. A successful community loks after all its members, not just the wealthy.

Queen K raises an interesting point. Just as the boomer generation has pushed a wave of market spikes ahead of it as it ages, there will be a corresponding trough as they finish their lives. I think for Penticton though, that will not mean increasing vacancy rates and lower prices. As a very desirable retirement destination I think it will just mean a higher turnover in 50+ developments.
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