Legal action after closure

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Rosemary1
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Legal action after closure

Post by Rosemary1 »

http://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton/ ... er-closure

Good for mayor and community to take a strong stand in trying to preserve the school but the odds may be stacked against them for succeeding.

Ministry provides funds based on student enrollment. such as 85% salaries and benefits! Trustees have authority on how their districts manages its budget. When 85% of that budget has to cover salaries and benefit it doesn’t leave much wiggle room.

Whether there were more creative ways to manage the remaining 15% of the budget or entertain other solutions allowed by legislation is up for debate. The one thing that appears certain is that listening and consulting with the community becomes more of an exercise in information dissemination to support a foregone decision.

According to SD53 Report ministry funding is based on student enrollment. 85% of SD53 budget goes to salaries and benefits driven by collective agreements and legislation.
https://www.sd53.bc.ca/district/osoyoos ... 209%202016

According to SD53’s Policy on School Closures “The Board of Education is responsible under the School Act for the effective and efficient operation of schools in the school district. The Board has the authority to close a school for reasons … (that include declining enrolment)”

https://www.sd53.bc.ca/district/pols/A- ... losure.pdf

According to the BC School Trustees Associations their duties include the duty to “…engage their communities in building and maintaining a school system that reflects local priorities, values and expectations. School trustees listen to their communities; guide the work of their school district; and set plans, policies and the annual budget. (Trustees) “… are directly accountable to the people they serve…”

http://www.bcsta.org/what_trustees_do
rustled
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Re: Legal Action after Closure

Post by rustled »

Here's the problem:
The baseline capacity utilization of district schools will continue to decline over the next ten years. This will mean
that the number of surplus spaces will grow from 831 to over 1,000 in ten years – almost a third of the spaces
provided in schools will be unnecessary.

https://www.sd53.bc.ca/district/osoyoos ... 202016.pdf
At what point do you downsize?

I think it's beyond bizarre the mayor and council are attacking the trustees for doing what they were elected to do.
There is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - Martin Luther King Jr.
twobits
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Re: Legal Action after Closure

Post by twobits »

Rosemary1 wrote:http://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton/164533/Legal-action-after-closure

Good for mayor and community to take a strong stand in trying to preserve the school but the odds may be stacked against them for succeeding.

Ministry provides funds based on student enrollment. such as 85% salaries and benefits! Trustees have authority on how their districts manages its budget. When 85% of that budget has to cover salaries and benefit it doesn’t leave much wiggle room.

Whether there were more creative ways to manage the remaining 15% of the budget or entertain other solutions allowed by legislation is up for debate. The one thing that appears certain is that listening and consulting with the community becomes more of an exercise in information dissemination to support a foregone decision.

According to SD53 Report ministry funding is based on student enrollment. 85% of SD53 budget goes to salaries and benefits driven by collective agreements and legislation.
https://www.sd53.bc.ca/district/osoyoos ... 209%202016

According to SD53’s Policy on School Closures “The Board of Education is responsible under the School Act for the effective and efficient operation of schools in the school district. The Board has the authority to close a school for reasons … (that include declining enrolment)”

https://www.sd53.bc.ca/district/pols/A- ... losure.pdf

According to the BC School Trustees Associations their duties include the duty to “…engage their communities in building and maintaining a school system that reflects local priorities, values and expectations. School trustees listen to their communities; guide the work of their school district; and set plans, policies and the annual budget. (Trustees) “… are directly accountable to the people they serve…”

http://www.bcsta.org/what_trustees_do


The most important factual information in your post is that 85% of the district budget goes to salaries and benefits leaving only 15% of funds to supply everything else. And since the local trustee's cannot tinker with the labour agreements with the BCTF or Cupe support staff, why is it so amazing to people that that the only way the trustee's can make their budget work is to increase the employee to student ratio by amalgamating under used classroom space? The current situation has classrooms with less than 10 students with a teacher drawing full salary in two different schools. How does that make any sense? The only way the trustee's can get rid of such waste is make two classrooms into one and lay off one teacher. That's a min savings of 80k per yr in a redundant teacher salary per combined classroom never mind the savings of unneeded support staff, maintenance and utilities.
It is laughable when the BCTF and CUPE members cry out about underfunded education when their very own salaries and benefits now take up 85% of the budget. It may have been sustainable years ago when enrollment was much higher but now that those numbers are way down in many districts, somehow the BCTF and CUPE think that additional funding should be provided to maintain their salaries despite having significantly lower numbers of customers to educate.
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nepal
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Re: Legal Action after Closure

Post by nepal »

Looking at the 85% of funding going to salaries, are there savings to be found within those salaries? For example, teachers with Masters and Doctorate degrees are paid substantially more than those with Bachelors degrees, Looking at the whole district, are the higher degrees necessary, say to teach elementary? There are many teachers with a Bachelor degree, who do an excellent job, even at the high school level. Another factor may be seniority, as those with less seniority are paid less. There may be savings gained by adjusting the teacher composition, towards keen young teachers who have Bacelor degrees. There are hundreds of bright young teachers wanting into the system. The financial statements usually include individual salaries over 75k, but this detail seems to have been omitted in this district, so the current composition is unknown.
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fluffy
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Re: Legal Action after Closure

Post by fluffy »

With most existing union contracts who gets laid off when times get tight is determined by seniority. First one hired, last one to go. I'm not sure whether this seniority list is district wide or simply by school, which would make a difference when closing schools for sure. Would a high seniority teacher fro a school slated for closure be able to "bump" a lower seniority member in another school in the same district? Restrictions on class size would guarantee many a job in the school where students would transfer too, but some job loss is inevitable.
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nepal
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Re: Legal Action after Closure

Post by nepal »

With sd53 and sd67 each reducing the number of schools, is the next step to combine those two districts, to reduce admin costs? Sd53 will only have seven schools to administer.
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fluffy
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Re: Legal Action after Closure

Post by fluffy »

It was only twenty years ago that Summerland and Penticton were separate school districts.
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nepal
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Re: Legal Action after Closure

Post by nepal »

The savings from closing sd53 administrative office, might exceed the net savings(350k) in closing the Osoyoos High School.
Closing the sd53 administrative office would inconvenience only a few people at that office, rather than hundreds of students, families, teachers and the viability of the town.
As for the size of the school building now being excessive, just close the few doors of the empty rooms and turn down the heat in those rooms. Apparently 85% of the SD budget is salaries, so the building is not the big issue here. Also the SD office could be sold to help fund district school upgrades.
Maybe the Town is already in discussion with the Minister and sd67 to consider this option. Perhaps the SD is presenting a single option to save their own bacon, by cutting a school.
It would be interesting to know the cost of operating the sd53 administration. Perhaps adding seven schools to nearby SD67 schools would be feasible, especially since sd67 is closing schools and will have excess administrative capacity.
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Symbonite
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Re: Legal Action after Closure

Post by Symbonite »

Give it a rest...close OSS...its done...no major updates or renovations since it was built...a student population of around 250 PPl and declining.SOSS is a newer and bigger school...with more potential.

What the fault is, is Osoyoos. Its not a family oriented Community as it was 20 years ago or more....its now become a retirement place....

look at lakeshore...used to be tons for RV sites and people coming down for camping bringing families in ...now all it is, is over priced condos that get used 2 weeks of the year from people from either Van or Alberta. The rest of the time is black and cold for the rest of the year...family oriented it is not.

Osoyoos is next to the border....remove that red tape and start promoting industry...promote the low CDN dollar and that will actually bring in people that will live there year round. That will also bring in families that will stay because of work. And that is the #1 problem for Osoyoos.

There will be a influx of families coming in the area because of the Jail. the very thing that was lost for kelowna and winfield because of course "not in my back yard" but if they (jail workers and their families) do set up in Osoyoos. its just a car ride to Oliver on the way to work for their kids.

then they are thinking of putting the in the old OLD elementary school (sonora) for a private school. boy that seems like a backwards thnking when SOSS has more to offer.

Face it OSS is dead.

Coming soon land sold and condos with a view of Osoyoos on one side and veiw of the golf course. Thats whats destined for that land.
**Disclaimer: The above statement is in my OPINION only.
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Rosemary1
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Re: Legal Action after Closure

Post by Rosemary1 »

Beg to differ a bit with symbonite. Guess its different perspectives.

Osoyoos population swells in summer from tourists, all is quiet after that, yes there are more vacation condos (though not all overpriced). That is not much different than other areas in the South Okanagan.

But as a family friendly place, Osoyoos for its small size is considered by some of us, nicer than some of the other larger surrounding communities.

Yes school closure is a dead horse now but for a 'last' word, one of the better pieces on the subject appeared April 29th in the Penticton Extra Off the Record piece written by Dan Walton on school district 67. Also apply to SD53.
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Re: Legal Action after Closure

Post by twobits »

nepal wrote:Looking at the 85% of funding going to salaries, are there savings to be found within those salaries? For example, teachers with Masters and Doctorate degrees are paid substantially more than those with Bachelors degrees, Looking at the whole district, are the higher degrees necessary, say to teach elementary? There are many teachers with a Bachelor degree, who do an excellent job, even at the high school level.


That in itself is one of the most ridiculous perks the BCTF managed to get into their contract. An automatic extra 20k/yr if you complete a masters degree for a job you already held and did not require a Masters Degree to get hired. And the majority of them that get their Masters Degree's do so online thru a "university" in Spokane Washington. Why is that? Why not thru an accredited Canadian University?
The whole notion is as stupid as saying an LPN should automatically get an RN's rate of pay should they complete the training even though their job won't change and there are enough RN's to fulfill the jobs that actually require that additional education.

Perhaps parents should be questioning what the credentials of the teacher's class that their child gets slotted into? BCTF logic would dictate that your child is going to get a better education in a classroom with a Masters Degree'd teacher than the classroom next door with only a lowly bachelor's degree for a teacher.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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datum555
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Re: Legal Action after Closure

Post by datum555 »

Symbonite wrote:Give it a rest...close OSS...its done...no major updates or renovations since it was built...a student population of around 250 PPl and declining.SOSS is a newer and bigger school...with more potential.

What the fault is, is Osoyoos. Its not a family oriented Community as it was 20 years ago or more....its now become a retirement place....

look at lakeshore...used to be tons for RV sites and people coming down for camping bringing families in ...now all it is, is over priced condos that get used 2 weeks of the year from people from either Van or Alberta. The rest of the time is black and cold for the rest of the year...family oriented it is not.

Osoyoos is next to the border....remove that red tape and start promoting industry...promote the low CDN dollar and that will actually bring in people that will live there year round. That will also bring in families that will stay because of work. And that is the #1 problem for Osoyoos.

There will be a influx of families coming in the area because of the Jail. the very thing that was lost for kelowna and winfield because of course "not in my back yard" but if they (jail workers and their families) do set up in Osoyoos. its just a car ride to Oliver on the way to work for their kids.

then they are thinking of putting the in the old OLD elementary school (sonora) for a private school. boy that seems like a backwards thnking when SOSS has more to offer.

Face it OSS is dead.

Coming soon land sold and condos with a view of Osoyoos on one side and veiw of the golf course. Thats whats destined for that land.


Most of the information as to the prision and how many families it is bringing is guess work at best. How many actually have kids? How many have a spouse or partner? How many already have kids that are over 18 and are no longer in school? How many will actually be living in Oliver or Osoyoos? How many will just commute from Penticton?
datum555
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Re: Legal Action after Closure

Post by datum555 »

I'm curious what legal action do the parents and town of Osoyoos think they are going to take? Force the school to stay open? You might as well take 800,000 and just burn it now in a bonfire. The town and parents have no legal standing to persue and action againest the school board. It is fully within the right of the school district to open and close school that best suit the needs on all those in it. Also a private school it an option for the town the costs alone can not be sustained by the town and parents. Unless a partent is sitting on 100,000,000.00 to fund all the static and dyamic costs that go with a private school. I would say 100 Million would be minimum to run a school for 5-10 years. 5-10 years would have to be the most basic in terms of kids and community feeling a benefit.
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Re: Legal Action after Closure

Post by twobits »

datum555 wrote:I'm curious what legal action do the parents and town of Osoyoos think they are going to take? Force the school to stay open? You might as well take 800,000 and just burn it now in a bonfire. The town and parents have no legal standing to persue and action againest the school board. It is fully within the right of the school district to open and close school that best suit the needs on all those in it. Also a private school it an option for the town the costs alone can not be sustained by the town and parents. Unless a partent is sitting on 100,000,000.00 to fund all the static and dyamic costs that go with a private school. I would say 100 Million would be minimum to run a school for 5-10 years. 5-10 years would have to be the most basic in terms of kids and community feeling a benefit.


I would agree that there are no legal grounds for a lawsuit by the City but your funding estimates for the operation of a single school are not even close to reality.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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nepal
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Re: Legal Action after Closure

Post by nepal »

twobits wrote:That in itself is one of the most ridiculous perks the BCTF managed to get into their contract. An automatic extra 20k/yr if you complete a masters degree for a job you already held and did not require a Masters Degree to get hired. And the majority of them that get their Masters Degree's do so online thru a "university" in Spokane Washington. Why is that? Why not thru an accredited Canadian University?
The whole notion is as stupid as saying an LPN should automatically get an RN's rate of pay should they complete the training even though their job won't change and there are enough RN's to fulfill the jobs that actually require that additional education.

Perhaps parents should be questioning what the credentials of the teacher's class that their child gets slotted into? BCTF logic would dictate that your child is going to get a better education in a classroom with a Masters Degree'd teacher than the classroom next door with only a lowly bachelor's degree for a teacher.

.
So at 20k per year extra cost of each unnessisary Masters, to support the cost of four unnessisary Masters Degrees, one teaching position must be sacrificed(4x20=80k), which reduces teaching position openings for aspiring new teachers, and increases class sizes because there are less teachers, but at unnessisarily higher pay rates. Would it be better to have more, ampley qualified, lower-paid teachers with Bacelors, thus smaller class sizes, less burn-out sick time, and more job opportunities for those trying to be employed and productive?
There are other added costs for the higher paid Masters, such as percentage wage increases, higher pension costs, more substitution costs due to large-class burn-out... Perhaps Masters could be limited to High-school sciences classes.
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