Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

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dieseluphammerdown
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Re: Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

Post by dieseluphammerdown »

LTD wrote:I guess not to many of you have dealt with the caliber of employees out there these days pay me top dollar but don't expect me to work hard ,Gordon h is right on the money hey why not make minimum wage 20 bucks an hour I will adjust my rates accordingly . flipping burgers and folding sweaters has got to be worth 20 an hour.
Deal with it often as an operations manager .
However we weed those ones out as we start our guys at $25 an HR.
So then with your comment about minimum wage you are feeding at the bottom for employees , but in return want skilled employees at starting out in life wages.
You as with anything in life get what you pay for.!
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Id love to spit some beechnut in that dudes eyes
And shoot him with my old 45
LTD
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Re: Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

Post by LTD »

no I'm not starting at the bottom I pay my guys more than the minimum what I expect are people that want to work and I'm not going to pay unskilled labor 25 bucks an hour
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Rosemary1
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Re: Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

Post by Rosemary1 »

Wages are just another costs of doing business and increase will just be passed on to the customers like other costs. If the business provides a good service and reliable products in demand that are in demand, it will survive. After all its competitors will have the same added cost from an increase in minimum wages.

Not everyone is able to, or capable of getting a higher education. Generally, 'unskilled' workers do the jobs that the more educated and specialized folks don't want to. 'unskilled' works deserve reasonable compensation through a base minimum wage increase.

Good or bad Work performance is a separate consideration from the minimum wage increase and something employers deal with .
twobits
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Re: Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

Post by twobits »

Catri wrote:It's shameful that some in our society believe that hardworking people with full time jobs "deserve" to live in poverty. Seriously. Shameful.


Sorry, but you have it all backwards. Nobody believes that hardworking people deserve to work and live in poverty. Statements like that are just unfounded socialist rhetoric. What is actually shameful is that there are enough unskilled and under achieving people out there to provide a sufficient labour pool to satisfy the demand for businesses that are only willing to pay the minimum they can get away with. True hardworking people are people that work equally as hard at improving their own employability thru skills training and education. And there are enough programs and grants out there for anyone who desires to, and has the motivation to, to take advantage of. Until they do, the unskilled labour pool actually suppresses their own wages because everyone is qualified to push a broom, flip a burger, or fold a sweater for the rack with 2 hrs of orientation training. You can try to blame the "capitalist and corporate pigs" all you want for offering wages that people are quite obviously taking but I would suggest you have a look in the mirror and tell me you don't shop at Walmart or buy your breakfast at Micky Dee's where you can stretch your dollar. Why should a business owner not try to stretch his/her dollar by shopping for the lowest priced employee for the skillset required?
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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Catri
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Re: Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

Post by Catri »

That's good. It balances off the unfounded right-wing rhetoric where you blame the poor for being poor.
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Corneliousrooster
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Re: Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

Post by Corneliousrooster »

I have 2 jobs posted right now - 1 requires some experience and pays over double min. Wage - the other pays aa couple bucks more than min wAge, no experience needed. I have been trying to fill the positions for 2 months now. (Both jobs will pay more than starting once there is some experience under the belts. I have hired a couple of people started training them and have had to let them go - I am frightened as to what the labour market has to offer. Zero will to work and a sense of entitlement that more money is deserved for the luxury of them showing up for work and putting in a pathetic effort. Luckily I have a few good people that are willing to put in the extra effort untiL we find some people willing to work.

Demanding a higher living wage as a starting pay is entitlement personified. Some people need to "learn" how to work and be motivated to better their position in life, not be handed a gov't implemented wage increase.
ToddT
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Re: Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

Post by ToddT »

I think the lines are being blurred here on what people think they are entitled to and what people need to get by in society.

I don't think people deserve handouts but I also don't think people deserve to work 40 hours a week and not be able to afford basic living expenses.
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Corneliousrooster
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Re: Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

Post by Corneliousrooster »

ToddT wrote:I think the lines are being blurred here on what people think they are entitled to and what people need to get by in society.

I don't think people deserve handouts but I also don't think people deserve to work 40 hours a week and not be able to afford basic living expenses.


A 40 Hr work week at the current min. wage is a take home pay of $1250/month. If you can't live off that you have budgetary and entitlement issues. People need to learn to live within their means instead of trying to keep up with the Jones - that is the fundamental problem, not an inadequate min. wage.
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Re: Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

Post by ToddT »

Corneliousrooster wrote:A 40 Hr work week at the current min. wage is a take home pay of $1250/month. If you can't live off that you have budgetary and entitlement issues. People need to learn to live within their means instead of trying to keep up with the Jones - that is the fundamental problem, not an inadequate min. wage.


I would expect that people working for minimum wage full time have much more than entitlement and budgetary issues. Kind of like how you seem to have ignorance issues.

$1,250 in one month is peanuts if you are raising a family. And before you say that someone shouldn't raise a family if they can't afford it, the fact of the matter is that people do it anyways and it is inherently "un-Canadian" to allow people to suffer.
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Corneliousrooster
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Re: Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

Post by Corneliousrooster »

Not sure how you translate my post into ignorance issues.... I have had good times and bad times, and the bad times were not that long ago. I HAD to live off min.wage, after coming from a decent paying job. I HAD to make huge lifestyle changes and adapt to my new situation. Not once did I expect the gov't or my new employer to bail me out. Live within your means, and if you can't you NEED to make adjustments, not hope for some fairytale government dictated "liveable wage" . That term is so subjective. I managed and I worked my butt off so that I could improve my financial situation. And once my situation improved I continue to this day to live like I make less than I do so that it is not so traumatizing if my situation takes a hit again. So can you and so can almost anyone on minimum wage.

It is delusional to think that raising min. wage (especially to this absurd $15/Hr that keeps getting floated around) will fix anything. In capitalism there will always be a bottom. Raising min.wage to $15 means that those currently making $15 will want $20, and those employing these people will raise their rates or prices to retain the staff and in the end $15 is now the bottom and no longer "liveable".

If your wage is not "liveable" you need to assess where you are living, what you are living in, who you are living with, what your transportation method is, and what you are eating. ALL these things can be adjusted - it might not be easy or convenient or something you want to do but it can be done. Those motivated to succeed will adjust, the rest will whine about a "liveable wage", cry to anyone who will listen and expect their government to enforce a wage increase because they felt they were comfortable and are entitled to more money for their entry level job.

When our governments are utilizing a foreign worker program because we can't find people willing to work for min. wage, yet we have a min. wage populous demanding a higher wage there is something seriously flawed in the logic.

Life is hard - we live in a first world country. Time to stop sucking thumbs and grow a pair. Quit expecting the gov't to fix what is broken in your life.
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Re: Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

Post by ToddT »

I don't disagree one bit with what you just posted. I try to live my life in a similar fashion. I disagree a bit with your logic though. Why even have a minimum wage then? It kind of defeats the purpose of capitalism.
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Corneliousrooster
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Re: Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

Post by Corneliousrooster »

ToddT wrote:I don't disagree one bit with what you just posted. I try to live my life in a similar fashion. I disagree a bit with your logic though. Why even have a minimum wage then? It kind of defeats the purpose of capitalism.


I assume at some point governments were lobbied bring a little socialism to the capitalist market. I don't think we do need a min wage. Even most jobs that in my youth were min. wage (fast food) seem to have a higher starting wage now. The market dictates the wages. There is no min. wage for a plumber or a carpenter or a dental assistant or a legal aide - a wage is offered and if it is too low the position remains unfilled. A plumber in penticton/Vancouver/ft. St. John make 3 different wages. The market dictates the wage. People need to take some responsibility for their own destiny.

I don't get why the picture is always painted as someone trying to raise their family on minimum wage, like they are chained to that job forever and is their only option for the duration of their life.....
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Re: Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

Post by LTD »

so if the minimum wage were to go up by almost 5 bucks an hour its only fair that trades wages jump by the same pretty soon you wont be able get your car fixed for less than 195 an hour
XT225
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Re: Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

Post by XT225 »

LTD wrote:so if the minimum wage were to go up by almost 5 bucks an hour its only fair that trades wages jump by the same pretty soon you wont be able get your car fixed for less than 195 an hour


What I despise is that automotive shops charge at least $80 per hour, shop time. It used to be far less and it wasn't that many years ago where a mechanic (even in little old Penticton) made a decent wage $25 or so; back then that was good money). Now they make less than that (not all; but many) and the skills (or lack of them) is showing. I say you have to pay good wages in order to get good work out of the employee.

If the mechanics are getting less in wages than in years past, then why isn't the shop rate going down? Oh I know...because the owners costs have increased. Yes, so have EVERYONES. Same as grocery stores; the clerks used to make $20+ an hour; now all those people have been bought out and they're lucky if they can even reach $14 an hour. Funny, my grocery bill hasn't gone down?
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Re: Penticton Minimum Wage Rebuttal

Post by LTD »

I don't think mechanics or any other trade are getting less in wages but the cost as you said is much much more to keep a shop open, tools have gone up ten fold upgrading education to keep up with changes In technology high rent and utilities insurance and shop supplies and paying UNSKILLED LABOR TO MUCH is only going to add to it and be passed on to everyone else.
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