Penticton Public Transit

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Rosemary1
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Penticton Public Transit

Post by Rosemary1 »

Can't help but notice the large buses running with hardly any passengers. Rarely see a full or half full bus. Surely there must be smaller buses that could meet commuter needs that would be more economical.
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whattaday
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Re: Penticton Public Transit

Post by whattaday »

Are you guys even connected to Google Maps yet? Cause I stopped visiting once I couldn't find a bus schedule on my phone. Basically everyone in the larger cities use it to get around, especially for public transit. So it makes no sense, if you guys still don't - but it would contribute to how many pedestrians use public transportation, because many people, especially newcomers, find the BC Transit bus schedule tediously confusing and unnecessary when you have Maps on point with the traffic, and pick ups.
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fall
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Re: Penticton Public Transit

Post by fall »

BC Transit is not in charge or running the show, it is really First Group which also owns Greyhound and numerous other transportation services throughout the world. They really need smaller buses for many routes in the Okanagan it is ridiculous, I see empty buses all the time and have thought the same thing.

http://www.firstgroupplc.com/about-firstgroup
southy
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Re: Penticton Public Transit

Post by southy »

fall wrote:BC Transit is not in charge or running the show, it is really First Group which also owns Greyhound and numerous other transportation services throughout the world. They really need smaller buses for many routes in the Okanagan it is ridiculous, I see empty buses all the time and have thought the same thing.

http://www.firstgroupplc.com/about-firstgroup


Fall I do believe you may be incorrect! BC Transit is BC Transit and I believe is contracted out in Penticton/South Okanagan to Berry and Smith Trucking who also have the school contract. No where on the First Group site (which is American) do they list the Okanagan. There are actually very few Canadian metro areas shown. But you are free to correct me if I am wrong.
XT225
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Re: Penticton Public Transit

Post by XT225 »

southy wrote:
Fall I do believe you may be incorrect! BC Transit is BC Transit and I believe is contracted out in Penticton/South Okanagan to Berry and Smith Trucking who also have the school contract. No where on the First Group site (which is American) do they list the Okanagan. There are actually very few Canadian metro areas shown. But you are free to correct me if I am wrong.


You are correct, Southy. It is Berry and Smith who run it in Penticton. I also believe that in order to get certain grants, Penticton had to have that size of busses; anything much smaller and the BC Govt wouldn't give grant money out. Plus, some of the smaller ones don't have wheelchair lifts or the ability to move the bus height up and down to make it easier for folks with disabilities to get on and off the buses.
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Re: Penticton Public Transit

Post by twobits »

XT225 wrote: I also believe that in order to get certain grants, Penticton had to have that size of busses; anything much smaller and the BC Govt wouldn't give grant money out.


Ya, that's a smart policy eh? Force smaller communities to run large buses they don't need or you won't get funded. IMO, if they are going to dictate the size of bus, BC Transit should be paying the million dollar transit deficit Penticton has every yr running these large empty buses.
From a cost benefit point of view, running these buses makes as much sense as using a one ton truck to go get groceries.
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GordonH
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Re: Penticton Public Transit

Post by GordonH »

BC Transit needs to base which buses are needed by size of ridership, regardless which size of buses used BC Transit funding should still be available.
Having large bus half full is total waste of both transit resources & taxpayers money.
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fall
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Re: Penticton Public Transit

Post by fall »

southy wrote:
Fall I do believe you may be incorrect! BC Transit is BC Transit and I believe is contracted out in Penticton/South Okanagan to Berry and Smith Trucking who also have the school contract. No where on the First Group site (which is American) do they list the Okanagan. There are actually very few Canadian metro areas shown. But you are free to correct me if I am wrong.


Yes, I was incorrect it is Berry and Smith. First Group runs BC Transit in Kelowna and many in the lower mainland except Metro Vancouver, I know that for certain.
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Re: Penticton Public Transit

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fall wrote:BC Transit is not in charge or running the show

BC Transit most certainly does run the show as does the local municipalities. Companies like First or in the case of Penticton, Berry & Smith, are just contractors - they more or less just provide the labour and run the day to day end of things.

More or less the way it works is if a Municipality wants to have transit in this Province and wants Provincial funding, they have to go through BC Transit (or Translink in the case of Metro Vancouver). BC Transit then tells the Municipality what they think they require to operate the service in terms of service hours, routes, schedules, fares and vehicle types. The municipality then leases the the vehicles from BC Transit and is given "X" amount of dollars for operating costs for each bus in form of Provincial funding. The municipality is also required to fund "X" amount of dollars. Every 7 years, an RFP goes out to various contractors to operate the system.

The contractors (First, Berry & Smith, etc.) have zero control over schedules, fares, policies, equipment types, etc. While they are typically asked for their input, they don't have any actual authority.
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Re: Penticton Public Transit

Post by Dizzy1 »

Another thing about using smaller buses. Using the HandyDart style cutaway buses presents its own challenges. First of all, they only have 20-24 seats, no standee's are allowed and if you have a stroller, walker or wheelchair, you have to lift the seats up for those which not only reduces the number of seats available thus amount of passengers you can carry, they also take more time to load - especially in the case of a wheelchair - so logistically, on a fixed schedules, they'd be a nightmare to operate and a pain for both the driver and passengers and the number of passengers who will be left at the stop because there is no room will increase. Salmon Arm uses them for fixed routes, but they have no where near the ridership or schedules that other communities have. The best strategy is to get more people on the bus, implementing such buses would have the opposite effect.

Another option would be to use a smaller conventional type bus, while they have fewer seats, they can still allow standees and have more room for strollers, walkers and wheelchairs as will no different to load/unload then a typical 40ft conventional buses. The costs involved would run in-between the smaller cutaways and full-size conventional buses, most of the costs savings would be through the lower wage that BC Transit is trying to implement for the drivers (I won't get into my thoughts on that because they sure aren't nice). If thats the case, then people better not *bleep* and whine about the Okanagan not having decent paying jobs.

There's a lot more to it as well, doesn't have to be, but there is.
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Re: Penticton Public Transit

Post by fall »

I remember calling in an aggressive operator with some road rage and anger management issues and First laughed at me and said BC Transit just owns the buses. I know they would have zero control over fares and policies but they should have some control or recommendations over bus types when they are the ones driving around in circles with two people on a full size bus. Good information, I don't ride the bus or really know how they operate. You seem to know your bus stuff dizzy.
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Re: Penticton Public Transit

Post by Dizzy1 »

fall wrote:I remember calling in an aggressive operator with some road rage and anger management issues and First laughed at me and said BC Transit just owns the buses.

While the contractor doesn't own the buses, they do own the drivers ;) That should have been dealt with in a more professional manner.
fall wrote:I know they would have zero control over fares and policies but they should have some control or recommendations over bus types when they are the ones driving around in circles with two people on a full size bus.

They can recommend things and are asked for their input, usually doesn't amount to much though. Keep in mind, there's a lot of political bureaucracy at both the Provincial and Municipal levels involved.
fall wrote: Good information, I don't ride the bus or really know how they operate. You seem to know your bus stuff dizzy.

You're welcome.

While they may seem to be running empty, you have to look at the big picture - while I don't have the numbers for Penticton off hand, they daily ridership is what really counts and not just trip per trip numbers.

Edited to add: Gas prices are going up, so you'll see more people starting to take the bus. There was quite a drop in numbers across various regions in BC over the last few months with the low fuel prices. Anyway, gotta run - got a plane to catch.
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Re: Penticton Public Transit

Post by occasional thoughts »

Check to see it didn't originate in Eritrea or Tunisia. (And I NEVER participate in the S. Ok. forums!)
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GordonH
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Re: Penticton Public Transit

Post by GordonH »

Here are BC Transit Buses http://bctransit.com/*/about/fleet

the 2 that would better fit in Penticton Vicinity & 30' dart (sfl)
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Re: Penticton Public Transit

Post by Dizzy1 »

GordonH wrote:Here are BC Transit Buses http://bctransit.com/*/about/fleet

the 2 that would better fit in Penticton Vicinity & 30' dart (sfl)

The Darts are on their way out - should all be retired in the next couple of years. As for the Vicinity, its Chinese made, so we'll see how it works out for BC Transit. There are other 30' models made by New Flyer, Alexander Dennis and Nova that would also work. The only concern I have with those is that BC Transit is arguing because the Vicinity has fewer seats then another conventional bus, even though they can carry more standee's, BC Transit is selling it to municipalities with a promise that the drivers will be paid less even though they're doing the same work with the same loads. As long as they get paid the same, I say bring em on - but if the drivers are gonna get paid less - fight them to keep them out of your system.
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