No more booze - really?

southy
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No more booze - really?

Post by southy »

I see the RDOS has issued a zero tolerance on alcohol for firehalls. http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... .htm#16730

The only part of this story that troubles me is how these individuals felt they were entitled to consume alcohol at the fire station? Where is MADD? I also wonder is alcohol allowed in area police stations? This is a no brainer as far as I'm concerned.
No booze PERIOD!!
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kgcayenne
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Re: No more booze - really?

Post by kgcayenne »

I can't think of any place of employment that allows booze during business hours, and let's face it, a fire Dept is 24/7/52.
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twobits
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Re: No more booze - really?

Post by twobits »

I tend to agree with both of the above posts. However I do also see the flip side. These small community fire halls are pretty much almost all volunteer people. They could also be described as a social club that does amazing community service no less than Rotary, JC's or Shriners for that matter. I can guarantee you there are bevies at their meetings. The only distinction really is a public funded building. I have to think that some properly applied and enforced protocols could be put in place that would allow for a cpl of beers AFTER practice that would maintain the social club atmosphere. I suppose my concern would be that while liquor regulations are being somewhat relaxed, why are we being so draconian in not allowing for some responsible consumption. They are after all volunteers.
And one Fire Chiefs comment that was not a big deal for his Hall begs an explanation. "We can always just go around the corner after practice" (sic) What does that really say? We can just go around the corner and drink all the beer we want and get in our cars? Or would a two beer limit if driving be more reasonable just like our Provincial DUI laws seem to suggest?
My second concern is that taking away the social aspect of the position could cause many to leave being a volunteer as well as discouraging others to join.
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southy
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Re: No more booze - really?

Post by southy »

twobits wrote:I tend to agree with both of the above posts. However I do also see the flip side. These small community fire halls are pretty much almost all volunteer people. They could also be described as a social club that does amazing community service no less than Rotary, JC's or Shriners for that matter. I can guarantee you there are bevies at their meetings. The only distinction really is a public funded building. I have to think that some properly applied and enforced protocols could be put in place that would allow for a cpl of beers AFTER practice that would maintain the social club atmosphere. I suppose my concern would be that while liquor regulations are being somewhat relaxed, why are we being so draconian in not allowing for some responsible consumption. They are after all volunteers.
And one Fire Chiefs comment that was not a big deal for his Hall begs an explanation. "We can always just go around the corner after practice" (sic) What does that really say? We can just go around the corner and drink all the beer we want and get in our cars? Or would a two beer limit if driving be more reasonable just like our Provincial DUI laws seem to suggest?
My second concern is that taking away the social aspect of the position could cause many to leave being a volunteer as well as discouraging others to join.


Not sure I agree entirely Twobits - especially with your second concern that taking away the social aspect of the position could cause many to leave being a volunteer as well as discouraging others to join. Do you mean that unless one can consume a beer or two they will refuse to volunteer? That in itself suggests to me that there could be a problem. Do individuals really need alcohol for there to be a social aspect? I would also think that there could be a liability factor involved in this decision. These individuals may only have a beer but after that more than one can create a liability such as DUI - who then is responsible should there be an accident? I think the answer is clear.
Last edited by ferri on Jun 4th, 2016, 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed quote
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JagXKR
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Re: No more booze - really?

Post by JagXKR »

To paraphrase Colonel Nathan R Jessep

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very protection that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a hose, and fight a fire.

Love that scene.
Just making a funny btw.
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.
twobits
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Re: No more booze - really?

Post by twobits »

southy wrote:

Not sure I agree entirely Twobits - especially with your second concern that taking away the social aspect of the position could cause many to leave being a volunteer as well as discouraging others to join. Do you mean that unless one can consume a beer or two they will refuse to volunteer? That in itself suggests to me that there could be a problem. Do individuals really need alcohol for there to be a social aspect? I would also think that there could be a liability factor involved in this decision. These individuals may only have a beer but after that more than one can create a liability such as DUI - who then is responsible should there be an accident? I think the answer is clear.


I do see your point as well. I am admittedly undecided on the issue.
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TylerM4
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Re: No more booze - really?

Post by TylerM4 »

It's important to also consider that volunteer firefighters are paid, and paid decently too. It's just that they only get paid when they attend calls and I think their weekly/annual training events.

At the end of the day tho. It's municipal building, with heavy equipment, etc inside. They don't have a liquor license, and really it makes a lot of sense to not have the alcohol or all of the liability that goes along with it.

My workplace would not allow me to host a BBQ for my team on work property (after work) because I wanted to allow people to bring their own drinks (no plans to actually serve alcohol). Just not worth the liability or the concerns with public perception.
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looking4one
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Re: No more booze - really?

Post by looking4one »

I believe that WorksafeBC laws say that any company approved function, including to and from that function is covered by them, (They were probably sued in court and lost). So therefore, WS can indemnify their loss against the employer.
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Re: No more booze - really?

Post by pentona »

From what I know of the smaller volunteer fire depts., most have had beer fridges for years. Now with Liability issues, those are now gone. Mostly it shouldn't be an issue for the members to mosey down to the local pub, Legion, Elks, etc. after practice for a beer if they so choose.

Where that becomes impossible is for depts. like Willowbrook, Kaleden, Anarchist Mtn, who do not such venues in the area.
rustled
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Re: No more booze - really?

Post by rustled »

Beer's not my choice of cold drinks, but don't separate me from my coffee when I''m volunteering and expect me to stay motivated :D .

I was thinking of the little one out in the middle of nowhere on Westside Road, and wondering if there's even a house nearby they could adjourn to for a glass of beer and some sandwiches before they head for home. No more needing to take turns being the DD (lordy, why do so many people assume beer drinkers aren't capable of planning ahead?). And no more hosting fire-hall dances and other adult social events as fundraisers.

Guess it's just a sign of the times. Wonder if the breweries are coming up with better non-alcoholic beers?
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TylerM4
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Re: No more booze - really?

Post by TylerM4 »

Just want to point out - the article clearly says that they can still have social gatherings and consume alcohol, it's just that they now need to get the event permit. A permit for firefighters at a firehall would likely be rubber stamped as typically the biggest influencing factor is safety when giving out these permits.

I had to get one for our wedding a few years back. Was fairly easy and inexpensive.

This new rule isn't going to prevent them from holding their dances, dinners, and other social/fundraising events.
rustled
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Re: No more booze - really?

Post by rustled »

TylerM4 wrote:Just want to point out - the article clearly says that they can still have social gatherings and consume alcohol, it's just that they now need to get the event permit. A permit for firefighters at a firehall would likely be rubber stamped as typically the biggest influencing factor is safety when giving out these permits.

I had to get one for our wedding a few years back. Was fairly easy and inexpensive.

This new rule isn't going to prevent them from holding their dances, dinners, and other social/fundraising events.

Good point, TylerM4. I stand corrected!
There is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - Martin Luther King Jr.
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Re: No more booze - really?

Post by Tome_23 »

Putting out fires with a few beers in your belly is always better.
southy
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Re: No more booze - really?

Post by southy »

Your statement reminds me of when I was 16 and a group of us would go camping with lots of bootlegged beer. Drink it all then p*@# on the fire. Emphasis here is age! Nahhh you won't get it!
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A_Britishcolumbian
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Re: No more booze - really?

Post by A_Britishcolumbian »

southy, kgcayenne, while it is concerning that an institution, beer in volunteer firehalls for members after practice or after a callout, has come to an end in rdos, your and others' feelings that alcohol should not be present, or isn't present, at least in an official sense, at any workplace, or maybe specifically a publicly funded workplace, is not really inline with the reality of our society.

the rcmp drink in their detachments. oddly I don't see txi's going to pick them up after their shifts though, and they never get irp's, and it is extremely rare that they ever get charged with impaired driving.

on the other hand, we do know they get in motor vehicle collisions while impaired, yet somehow manage to escape charges, and do kill people in some of those collisions.

strange the way that all works really.

here is some relevant info pertaining to this awful reality.

"one personal story goes back to 1990 when I was on French language for four months when I was a federal public servant. The other students in my class were male RCMP officers, ranging from corporals to sergeants to an inspector. They'd all been in the force for many years. Some were pretty chauvinistic in their attitudes towards women. But what struck me most was when on a few occasions we were invited to headquarters for after class get-togethers. There was the officers' dining mess hall, where we met, and the non-commissioned officer's mess. A social class distinction in action.

The separation of RCMP officers into upper and lower classes, just by the means of two mess different halls, is a symbol of privilege for the select few. This is anathema to building leadership in a law enforcement organization."


https://changingwinds.wordpress.com/201 ... t-bullies/

When I first arrived at Depot facilitators/instructors were expected to sign a form taking full responsibility for the troops at their half way party. Remember, that the cadets could frequent the Stand Easy Lounge every night unsupervised. The night of the half way party was expected to be a night of binge drinking.

Once graduated the RCMP member has easy access to RCMP drinking sites especially the Mess in each Division or Detachment.


https://re-sergeance.net/2012/10/06/the ... ic-family/

both articles are quite lengthy, but well worth reading.
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