Another Car Another Front Door

Randall T
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Re: Another Car Another Front Door

Post by Randall T »

TylerM4 wrote:
So why isn't it working then? Or are you saying that you're happy with the current state of affairs?

I'll share my experience: Doctor's don't pull a license until way too late and the patient has been diagnosed with a medical condition. How the heck do you expect a doctor to assess someone's ability to drive? A doctor can only identify when they're definitely NOT ABLE due to a medical reason. There's a huge difference there.

Families cannot pull a license, they can only go to their doctor and ask him/her to do that.

Randall - ludicrous? Really? Actually testing someone to see if they're able is beyond reason? Time to come back to earth. Are you approaching that age yourself or something? Why do you believe it's so unreasonable? It's a 1hr test every 5 years!

The current reality is simple. Those who are elderly and unfit to drive only loose their license in 1 of 2 ways:
- A major medical condition making it physically impossible for them to drive safely along with a proactive doctor.
- A serious accident that brings the driver's ability into question (Hope it's not you or your family involved).


I suggest you read my entire post Tyler. I'll point out that I would support your theory of testing if it applies to all age groups, and not just the one you have singled out. You questioned my age and how I felt about renewal testing so I'll throw that one back to whatever age group you're in. I'm not sure why you think people over the age of 65 need to be taken off the road, but still think that all other drivers are capable of driving responsibly. As pointed out by another poster, the problem is not exclusive to the older generation. Possibly your the type that flies into a rage because Granny is driving a bit under the posted speed limit?
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Poindexter
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Re: Another Car Another Front Door

Post by Poindexter »

my5cents wrote:
I hope I'm around at 91 to worry if I should be driving or not.


I think you'll be surprised how important it is being able to drive. I know seniors with enough money to be taxied around their remaining days but refuse to admit they need help. To many seniors giving up driving seems like just another nail in the coffin and they'll drive when they shouldn't. Given this stubbornness to voluntarily give up their license, some sort of mandatory testing is needed.
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southy
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Re: Another Car Another Front Door

Post by southy »

I totally agree with you. My father was in his late 70s lived in a small town .. was a city council member .. Knew everyone including RCMP members. He had two accidents in one winter season unfortunately police attributed both to road conditions. He was diagnosed that same winter with Alzheimer's. We had his license pulled and took both his keys and car away. A lot of different people can help enable those with mental and physical health issues to continue doing what they shouldn't be. Unfortunately our family members were 800 miles away and couldn't really see what was going on.
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fluffy
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Re: Another Car Another Front Door

Post by fluffy »

TylerM4 wrote:I guarantee you that if you look at it from a "Deaths per kilometer driven" standpoint, those 70+ yo groups would look a heck of a lot more dangerous.


Here is a study from the American Auto Association that covers this topic comprehensively. The last paragraph on page two gives a concise overview:

https://www.aaafoundation.org/sites/default/files/2012OlderDriverRisk.pdf

Of note is that while drivers 85 and older had the highest rates of death both per driver and per mile driven, that figure is largely due to their diminished capacity to survive a crash rather than an increased crash rate.
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my5cents
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Re: Another Car Another Front Door

Post by my5cents »

Poindexter wrote:I think you'll be surprised how important it is being able to drive. I know seniors with enough money to be taxied around their remaining days but refuse to admit they need help. To many seniors giving up driving seems like just another nail in the coffin and they'll drive when they shouldn't. Given this stubbornness to voluntarily give up their license, some sort of mandatory testing is needed.


Yes, Poindexter, it is devastating. I already could have imagined, but further, my wife worked issuing driver's licenses and had to take licenses away from people (on the orders of the old Superintendent), it was heart breaking. They would actually drive the old gentleman home and follow with someone driving his car home.

Cases where the senior lived in a small community not served by any type of taxi or transit.

It's a fact of life. The loss of a license is one of those moments in life that really hits home.

Worse, would be keeping it and being a danger on the road.
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twobits
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Re: Another Car Another Front Door

Post by twobits »

my5cents wrote:

I hope you got a warning and not a ticket, because a stop sign erected in a parking lot isn't enforceable. Many of the laws that cover Highways can be enforced in parking lots, but signs placed by the owners of the parking lot, nope.



Thanks for that info but it was not very timely and wayyyyyy past the dispute window now. Has to make one wonder however at the level of law knowledge of that Constable??
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TylerM4
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Re: Another Car Another Front Door

Post by TylerM4 »

Randall T wrote:I suggest you read my entire post Tyler. I'll point out that I would support your theory of testing if it applies to all age groups, and not just the one you have singled out. You questioned my age and how I felt about renewal testing so I'll throw that one back to whatever age group you're in. I'm not sure why you think people over the age of 65 need to be taken off the road, but still think that all other drivers are capable of driving responsibly. As pointed out by another poster, the problem is not exclusive to the older generation. Possibly your the type that flies into a rage because Granny is driving a bit under the posted speed limit?


I'm amazed that you don't understand the motivation behind testing 65+ only. I guess I'll have to spell it out.

Come 65+ you cognitive abilities begin to drop off. Some much more rapidly than others. THIS is why you'd want to target this group because THIS is the group who is at risk of having their driving skills begin to diminish below safe levels.

Young people get BETTER. Old people get WORSE.

Ah! Now I get it! You don't understand the difference between ability and responsibility! You can test ability, you can't test responsibility - that's why it makes sense to test 65+ only (or anyone else that a physician may flag as being unable). This is the age at which your ability begins to decline. Sure, we could test everyone but I'm trying to pick my battles and focus on testing those of us most at risk for loosing our ability.

So, yes it's apparent you are approaching/at that testing age. Are you sure that's not influencing you here?
whatwhat
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Re: Another Car Another Front Door

Post by whatwhat »

I am working with a gentleman (60+years old, and suffers from a disability) right now and we are trying to get his license taken away as he is in no way safe to drive. You'd be surprised how difficult it has been.
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TylerM4
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Re: Another Car Another Front Door

Post by TylerM4 »

whatwhat wrote:I am working with a gentleman (60+years old, and suffers from a disability) right now and we are trying to get his license taken away as he is in no way safe to drive. You'd be surprised how difficult it has been.



EXACTLY! To be frank - the ones who actually do get their licenses pulled should have had it done LONG ago!

Grandfather in law was another great example - after a series of 3 strokes over 10 years he didn't even know where he lived anymore. He refused to give up the keys. We tried everything in our power (including begging his physician) and failed. Eventually I was asked to come over and mechanically disable his vehicle. He was a skilled aircraft mechanic in his prime, but at that point couldn't even figure out that his car wouldn't start because I'd disconnected the battery.
whatwhat
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Re: Another Car Another Front Door

Post by whatwhat »

TylerM4 wrote:EXACTLY! To be frank - the ones who actually do get their licenses pulled should have had it done LONG ago!

Grandfather in law was another great example - after a series of 3 strokes over 10 years he didn't even know where he lived anymore. He refused to give up the keys. We tried everything in our power (including begging his physician) and failed. Eventually I was asked to come over and mechanically disable his vehicle. He was a skilled aircraft mechanic in his prime, but at that point couldn't even figure out that his car wouldn't start because I'd disconnected the battery.


I can't believe how difficult it has been! Both his staff working with him have expressed our concerns with his doctor and his doctor fully agrees that he shouldn't drive. But there isn't anything he can do. The client wants to keep it, so his doctor needs to take the steps to help him with it.

Luckily the doctor forwarded his driver's medical exam to Driveable but it still seems outrageous that what seems like such a straight forward situation needs to be dragged through the mud so much.
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zzontar
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Re: Another Car Another Front Door

Post by zzontar »

whatwhat wrote:I am working with a gentleman (60+years old, and suffers from a disability) right now and we are trying to get his license taken away as he is in no way safe to drive. You'd be surprised how difficult it has been.


I'll bet if they had an extensive roadside test he would fail, but because he would pass a breathalyzer it's all fine.
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whatwhat
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Re: Another Car Another Front Door

Post by whatwhat »

zzontar wrote:I'll bet if they had an extensive roadside test he would fail, but because he would pass a breathalyzer it's all fine.


Oh he definitely would. I was surprised when his doctor did his "memory" test how the scoring worked. The test is out of a possible 130. Anything between 0-30 is a fail, anything between 30-70 in the "grey zone" and anything above 70 is a pass. If you get in the grey zone you are sent for more testing if you want to keep your license.

Like I said to TylerM4, luckily his GP put him through to Driveable. It will take a couple months, but he will have to in for a "mental" test which isn't a driving test but tests driving skills such as memory and reflexes. If he fails that then he has to do a road test on a course provided by Driveable so he doesn't endanger others on the actual road.
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TylerM4
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Re: Another Car Another Front Door

Post by TylerM4 »

I hope the driveable test is better now than it used to be. Or perhaps has more components to it.

I setup a testing station at KGH and had the opportunity to play with it. My 3yo would have passed with a little practice. It reminded me of a simple videogame from the 80's. There was a steering wheel, a brake pedal, and a gas pedal. You drove down a simple road and had to either stop, go, or turn left/right at the appropriate time. It was scary how simple and easy it was. Your average 10yo with absolutely no clue how to drive a car would have passed it on the 1st try.
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Re: Another Car Another Front Door

Post by my5cents »

whatwhat wrote:I can't believe how difficult it has been! Both his staff working with him have expressed our concerns with his doctor and his doctor fully agrees that he shouldn't drive. But there isn't anything he can do. The client wants to keep it, so his doctor needs to take the steps to help him with it.

Luckily the doctor forwarded his driver's medical exam to Driveable but it still seems outrageous that what seems like such a straight forward situation needs to be dragged through the mud so much.


Not sure what you mean on a couple of issues.

"(his doctor) .... But there isn't anything he can do."
I hope that's not what the doctor said to you, because there is something a doctor can do, in fact there is something the doctor must do. Once the MD has formed the opinion that it is dangerous for the patient to drive, the patient should be warned by the MD that they should not drive. If the patient refuses or continues to drive, the MD MUST report the patient to the Superintendent. (see below)

"The client want to keep it, so his doctor needs to take the steps to help him with it."
Not sure what you mean, "the doctor needs to take steps to help him..." Certainly the doctor should treat his patient, and help him in that way, that's pretty normal.

The BC Motor Vehicle Act states :

Report of health professional
230 (1) This section applies to every legally qualified and registered psychologist, optometrist, medical practitioner and nurse practitioner who has a patient 16 years of age or older who

(a) in the opinion of the psychologist, optometrist, medical practitioner or nurse practitioner has a medical condition that makes it dangerous to the patient or to the public for the patient to drive a motor vehicle, and

(b) continues to drive a motor vehicle after being warned of the danger by the psychologist, optometrist, medical practitioner or nurse practitioner.

(2) Every psychologist, optometrist, medical practitioner and nurse practitioner referred to in subsection (1) must report to the superintendent the name, address and medical condition of a patient referred to in subsection (1).

(3) No action for damages lies or may be brought against a psychologist, an optometrist, a medical practitioner or a nurse practitioner for making a report under this section, unless the psychologist, optometrist, medical practitioner or nurse practitioner made the report falsely and maliciously.
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my5cents
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Re: Another Car Another Front Door

Post by my5cents »

TylerM4 wrote:I hope the driveable test is better now than it used to be. Or perhaps has more components to it.

I setup a testing station at KGH and had the opportunity to play with it. My 3yo would have passed with a little practice. It reminded me of a simple videogame from the 80's. There was a steering wheel, a brake pedal, and a gas pedal. You drove down a simple road and had to either stop, go, or turn left/right at the appropriate time. It was scary how simple and easy it was. Your average 10yo with absolutely no clue how to drive a car would have passed it on the 1st try.


? The Driver's Road Test has never been conducted by way of an interactive video.

Over the years driver testing has become more and less onerous. I say "more" because they are longer and more detailed. I say "less" because parallel parking is not required. I'm not sure if parallel parking is just left out of the test or if it's just an action that a test subject can fail and still pass the test.

Personally I think if someone can't parallel park they have demonstrated they don't know how to drive.
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