Headline: "Crews halt fentanyl OD"

[ToddT]

It's not that firefighter are not "as good" they just have different training. Their training is directed more towards putting out fires, hazardous chemicals, physically rescuing people. There are different levels of ambulance paramedics and correspondingly more or less training. But even that standard paramedic, with the training, their experience and on-going training, would be far too much to consider adding to the knowledge required to be a firefighter.

To the man on the street, "someone showed up, with siren and red lights and helped" that's all they know.

It seems you need them, and they need you. As was mentioned earlier, because they are often first on scene, I'm glad they have the ability to save someone's life while they wait for the Ambulance. Your issue shouldn't be with firefighters, it should be with your government.
I always thought that when someone calls 911, everyone attends the scene. If the fire department is there first and saves a life, why do you care if they get the spotlight?

[my5cents]

It seems you need them, and they need you. As was mentioned earlier, because they are often first on scene, I'm glad they have the ability to save someone's life while they wait for the Ambulance. Your issue shouldn't be with firefighters, it should be with your government.
I always thought that when someone calls 911, everyone attends the scene. If the fire department is there first and saves a life, why do you care if they get the spotlight?

I don't recall stating who I have the issue with, but I think my description would lead most readers to understand the problem is the government.

I can only explain it so many times. It's not about who get the "spotlight".

Depending on the circumstance, it's not a matter of "saving a life", the goal is stabilizing the patient, and getting them to the hospital for the treatment they need. That stabilizing is an ongoing situation from the time of the arrival of whoever is first until the patient is released to hospital care.

[ToddT]

lol your whole argument reeks of wanting the spotlight.

[pentona]

I don't recall stating who I have the issue with, but I think my description would lead most readers to understand the problem is the government.

I can only explain it so many times. It's not about who get the "spotlight".

Depending on the circumstance, it's not a matter of "saving a life", the goal is stabilizing the patient, and getting them to the hospital for the treatment they need. That stabilizing is an ongoing situation from the time of the arrival of whoever is first until the patient is released to hospital care.

I think the Fire crews do a good job of stablilizing the patient until EHS arrives, though fire is not always first on scene. Often times they are called off before they even arrive, if EHS deems their attendance unnecessary.

What Fire crews cannot do under any circumstances is Transport the patient to the hospital. When minutes count, this could be a problem. Both agencies are needed and do a good job of assisting each other. It would not surprise me, down the road to see the ambulances, in cities at least, taken under the umbrella of the Fire Departments, as is done in the U.S.A., I believe.

With all the downloading from the Province, I can really see this happening and it might not be such a bad thing.

http://www.vancourier.com/news/paramedi ... -1.2230174

[twobits]

is this merely a case of common sense, in having the naloxone kits distributed wider than just paramedics ? I see this as a response to the meteoric rise in opioid overdoses, and the possibility that we may have a number of emergencies occurring concurrently.

That is absolutely an accurate assessment. And if our Fire Dept's are so overpaid and underworked as 5cents points out, it only makes sense to give them something genuinely beneficial to do. BTW, 5cents, I agree with your assessment of Fire Dept work load. If I were King for a day, the wage structure of Ambulance and Fire personnel would be reversed. How a trade that requires little more than grade 12 in education has managed to elevate themselves to some kind of reverend status behooves me.
I will never forget the comment made by an acquaintance friend that became a Penticton Firefighter at 20 and retired with a fat pension at 45. "will never have to work again. Best job you could ever have. Two day shifts, two sleepovers, and then four days off and everyone thinks your a hero when most of the time you wash down fuel spills, put out dumpster fires, or play ping pong at the Hall.

[twobits]

With all the downloading from the Province, I can really see this happening and it might not be such a bad thing.

http://www.vancourier.com/news/paramedi ... -1.2230174

It is an excellent idea but it will never happen here in our lifetime. The Fire Fighters union would never allow it cuz they would have to explain why the Ambulance Paramedics with some serious schooling were busy all the time and paid so much less.

[Drip_Torch]

Many many years ago, in some jurisdictions the ambulances were run by funeral parlors. I don't know if I like the thought of that. A white Cadillac for an ambulance and a black one for a hearse. If they did a poor job treating you and taking you to the hospital in the white Cadillac you left the hospital in a black Cadillac

Langford 1970's... quick scoop with a clam shell and into the meat wagon.

I think my description would lead most readers to understand the problem is the government.

Yeap, that's what I get that out of everything you've wrote.

With all the downloading from the Province, I can really see this happening and it might not be such a bad thing.
http://www.vancourier.com/news/paramedi ... -1.2230174

No thanks! If that was threatened, I'd do something radical, like sign a petition, or make a sign, or something. I can't imagine how wholly inefficient that would be: dispatch, logistics, procurement, training, etc. No thanks, I'm fairly certain I'll be taxed enough by my local government - soon enough.

an acquaintance friend that became a Penticton Firefighter at 20 and retired with a fat pension at 45.

OMG... I'da died of boredom.

The Fire Fighters union would never allow it cuz they would have to explain why the Ambulance Paramedics with some serious schooling were busy all the time and paid so much less.

Okay, on the surface there is that.

I suspect it isn't really that though. I'd have to speculate and that's weird, cause I belong to a union, think it's call the international brotherhood of people that lift heavy things and break expensive stuff. Even though it's private sector, you can look up the contract on the interwebz. (if only I could remember what they're called). Public sector unions different story - that appears to be somewhat private. Point is, I'm not sure that I believe Fire make more than full time Ambulance hourly, but I do know that some fire peeps make some fairly tasty cake with the overtime.

That's something the politico's could instruct the admin's to work on. Like I said before, nothing compels the city to have a fire department, so they do have some say in how the department works.

The standing joke about today's fire service reality is something like: 125 years of innovation held back, by 98 years of tradition.

[pentona]

That is absolutely an accurate assessment. And if our Fire Dept's are so overpaid and underworked as 5cents points out, it only makes sense to give them something genuinely beneficial to do. BTW, 5cents, I agree with your assessment of Fire Dept work load. If I were King for a day, the wage structure of Ambulance and Fire personnel would be reversed. How a trade that requires little more than grade 12 in education has managed to elevate themselves to some kind of reverend status behooves me.
I will never forget the comment made by an acquaintance friend that became a Penticton Firefighter at 20 and retired with a fat pension at 45. "will never have to work again. Best job you could ever have. Two day shifts, two sleepovers, and then four days off and everyone thinks your a hero when most of the time you wash down fuel spills, put out dumpster fires, or play ping pong at the Hall.

I don't believe you are up to date on training. I know several folks in both agencies and the Fire folks have to get specialized training (on their dime and its not cheap) before they are ever considered for a position. The cost is in the thousands of dollars and they have to go away; usually to Texas to take the courses and training. I do not know what training ambulance folks need before being hired.

Re the pension, your friend would suffer a huge loss in pension if he retired at 45. I looked it up online today and it would be a 45% reduction if he retired at that age. 3% per year penalty reduction for every year before reaching 80 (that's their age plus years of service). These folks all put in a sizeable chunk of their paycheque each month as well.

If the average person without a pension plan socked away that kinda cash over the years, they would also have a decent investment upon retirement. The problem is that they don't and then they whine.

Now, lets get: re Fentanyl. I am happy that both agencies are now able to administer the Naloxone; bottom line.

[Drip_Torch]

I don't believe you are up to date on training. I know several folks in both agencies and the Fire folks have to get specialized training (on their dime and its not cheap) before they are ever considered for a position. The cost is in the thousands of dollars and they have to go away; usually to Texas to take the courses and training. I do not know what training ambulance folks need before being hired.

I'm not an expert in these things, but I'm a little more familiar than most. Last time I looked, ProBoard or IFSAC certified NFPA 1001 training was about a 500 hour commitment, and $12,000 to $15,000 in tuition. I know a few people that took the Texas option, and the reason behind their decision was the lack of prerequisites, to get into that program, and course availability. JIBC, College of the Rockies, Lakeland College - all offer similar programs around the same price point.

Of course, that's assuming that the department requires NFPA 1001 certified training for the position the individual takes. All firefighters are not trained equally and there is the option for communities to offer lesser levels of service, in exchange for lesser training commitments. There are also paths to get to the NFPA 1001 level through in house training, or partnerships with other departments that can offer the training.

If your communities service level is "exterior only" the training can be as little as about $500 and even less if your have people certified to do "in house" training.

Over on the Ambulance side of things, to have a shot at a part time job, you need Emergency Medical Responder - about a 120 hours and $1000. With more opportunities and a better shot of getting hired if you also complete Primary Care Paramedic training - about 1 month of online training, four months of classroom training and $5000+. That's to get you started on a part time car and then the training really starts, if you want a shot at full time work.

Either service is a huge commitment to training and staying current.

[Drip_Torch]

Here's the complete 411 pkg on 911 jobs open in Penticton.

http://www.penticton.ca/EN/main/city/em ... ghter.html

(Get your applications in before Friday)