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Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Re: Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Postby Osoyoos_Familyof4 » Dec 30th, 2017, 8:17 pm

I have spent 18 days inpatient just this year in PRH as I have a chronic illness.

I have spent countless hours on top of the above hours in the ER, in the oncology department, and waiting for multiple CT's and also getting community nursing care through the adjacent health unit across the street.

Further, we have a child who is ill and primarily treated by BC Children's, but she often gets there via the PGH ER.

I unfortunately don't have many good things to report about PGH, although I have encountered some good people there.

I have witnessed call bells going off for hours unanswered and baby times just simply turned off. I have witnessed infection control completely lacking (I'm always in a private isolation room to protect me from infection). Because I'm always in isolation I am usually right across from the nursing station. So, I hear them all the time ignoring call bells, and simply shutting them off. I see patients unsafely negotiating the halls because they need something, and nobody is there to get it.

I have had medication mix-ups, I have had medicine needed NOW take hours to either get from the pharmacy to the unit, or the unit to me.

I have been paralysed (yes - paralysed) in a room with no wheelchair and had multiple (yes multiple) nurses come ask me if I "needed" anything 6 hours into their shift, and when I tell them I need to go to the bathroom - they are surprised that I can't do it (meaning they weren't even aware a paralysed person was under their care. This too of course I just spent 6 hours with no fresh water, or food (dietary sometimes doesn't deliver into isolation.

I have been dealing with a serious chronic illness for 20 years. I unfortunately know more about the inside hospitals than I care to. I would not leave a vulnerable family member at PGH alone for anything. There are mostly good doctors, some good nurses, but a whole lot of systemic garbage.

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Re: Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Postby twobits » Dec 31st, 2017, 5:42 pm

Osoyoos_Familyof4 wrote:I have spent 18 days inpatient just this year in PRH as I have a chronic illness.

I have spent countless hours on top of the above hours in the ER, in the oncology department, and waiting for multiple CT's and also getting community nursing care through the adjacent health unit across the street.

Further, we have a child who is ill and primarily treated by BC Children's, but she often gets there via the PGH ER.

I unfortunately don't have many good things to report about PGH, although I have encountered some good people there.

I have witnessed call bells going off for hours unanswered and baby times just simply turned off. I have witnessed infection control completely lacking (I'm always in a private isolation room to protect me from infection). Because I'm always in isolation I am usually right across from the nursing station. So, I hear them all the time ignoring call bells, and simply shutting them off. I see patients unsafely negotiating the halls because they need something, and nobody is there to get it.

I have had medication mix-ups, I have had medicine needed NOW take hours to either get from the pharmacy to the unit, or the unit to me.

I have been paralysed (yes - paralysed) in a room with no wheelchair and had multiple (yes multiple) nurses come ask me if I "needed" anything 6 hours into their shift, and when I tell them I need to go to the bathroom - they are surprised that I can't do it (meaning they weren't even aware a paralysed person was under their care. This too of course I just spent 6 hours with no fresh water, or food (dietary sometimes doesn't deliver into isolation.

I have been dealing with a serious chronic illness for 20 years. I unfortunately know more about the inside hospitals than I care to. I would not leave a vulnerable family member at PGH alone for anything. There are mostly good doctors, some good nurses, but a whole lot of systemic garbage.


I am sympathetic to your situation and feel genuine empathy for you and your child's medical issues. But at the risk of seeming ingenuine, where else would you want to live to receive the level of extensive care you obviously are in need of that would meet your standard and who is expected to pay for it?
We could as a collective society pay for 10 CT scanners in every hospital so no one waits a day. We could pay for heart or hip replacements that can be done in a week rather than six to nine months. But what else suffers for that effort? Schools? Special Ed. Homeless housing? Bridges and hwy's that get people to work that pay payroll taxes that pay for the care you receive?
It's not such an easy thing to solve and unfortunately as a collective society some difficult decisions are made. A triage of sorts where money is sometimes better spent on the many rather than all on just a few. I know this post will anger some but it is an unfortunate reality that not everyone can be saved despite our desire to do so.
And as an anecdotal comment, I think your picking on PRH as substandard is unfair. They have the same budgetary constraints as every other hospital in the Province. And I think most of us have seen many more grateful people state their appreciation for the care they received at PRH than those who concur with your assessment.
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Re: Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Postby Osoyoos_Familyof4 » Dec 31st, 2017, 7:57 pm

I don't know what country has it better, that isn't the conversation of this thread. And with all due respect, I have spent more time at this hospital than most people, so perhaps I do have a perspective over time that a to of folks don't get.

I'm not talking about budget stuff and infrastructure necessarily, I am talking about disrespect and negligence sometimes.

I have literally had a call bells ignored minutes afterward administering a very "tricky" medication that can have serious life threatening complications. I have been ignored for HOURS right outside the nurses station as I can hear them chatting about their personal lives. I have been denied a bed in a birth of the ER (even though they were several available) because when I was booked into the. ER there wasn't any and I had to wait on a stretcher in a hallway (fair enough), but then 6 people got discharged and I was still in the hallway! I asked to be moved into a proper birth with a curtain, and they said "no" because my "spot" was already in the hallway (this happened twice on 2 different ER visits).

I have seen elderly patients denied the opportunity to have any pleasure and get up and walk around or to have some moments of sweetness and compassion. I have been woken out of bed at 5:00am to accommodate nursing shift changes only to get ready and do nothing in the morning but wait 3 hours for breakfast. I have had simple things like dietary menus not make it into my room so that I could even select my own meal. I have had dirty rooms (even human crap on a pull down blind in an isolation room).

I'm sorry, but I consider myself to be quite fair and reasonable, and I have been in and out of more hospitals (including foreign ones) than most people ever will thankfully see. And I can't of too many hospitals that I have ever been in (in Canada anyway) worse than PGH.

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Re: Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Postby twobits » Jan 1st, 2018, 6:56 pm

Wow. Am not sure how to respond to that without sounding like a complete A hole. However, like I asked previously, where do you think you would get better care? My next question would be if PRH is so bad in your opinion and given your stated needs, why have you not gone elsewhere to receive that care? As a BC resident you can go to any hospital you want. Go another hour north to Kelowna if you think it might be better there. Is your care not worth the extra 60 minutes if you believe it will make a difference? Or will Kelowna not be good enough either?
I am truly sorry for your medical situation but I do think you have options if you want to pick on one specific facility. You also have to take into consideration your choice of location in Osoyoos. Again, at the risk of sounding like an A hole, if I had medical concerns such as yourself and your child, and problems with the service received you believe are better elsewhere, I would be looking at relocation.
Given the funding that is coming in for PRH equipment purchases to the tune of 20 million, and almost at that goal, from just plain local folk that are appreciative of the care they or loved ones received at PRH, quite frankly you are sounding like a bit of an outlier or someone whose expectations are unrealistic within a budget that is meant for the greater good of all instead of the whole wad on a few. And more bluntly, you are coming across like your entitled despite the cost of your care. Sorry, but that is how it sounds despite your profession of being a demure person when you attack the nurses and other professionals at the PRH as being lazy, inattentive, and incompetent. You are insulting a lot of people that spent years in education and training to help people and they don't deserve to trashed because they don't meet your personal expectations.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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Re: Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Postby totoramona » Jan 3rd, 2018, 12:22 pm

twobits wrote:Wow. Am not sure how to respond to that without sounding like a complete A hole. However, like I asked previously, where do you think you would get better care? My next question would be if PRH is so bad in your opinion and given your stated needs, why have you not gone elsewhere to receive that care? As a BC resident you can go to any hospital you want.


*removed* Those of us identifying issues with PRH are not ungrateful for the Canadian medical system or even our local hospitals. We are grateful. I also have family members with chronic illness and I am extremely thankful that my family lives in Canada. But there are legitimate criticisms of our system and the people in it. And most of them have to do with accountability and management, not a need for higher funding. In my opinion, as a patient at PRH, you are completely dependent on the nursing staff. The doctors on shift come and visit you once in the morning. Your own doctor may come check in in the afternoon. The other 24 hrs of the day your care depends on the nurses reading your file, charting information, passing on information, being competent with the equipment and having true empathy for their patients. They are not run off their feet. I witnessed it. There are helpful, friendly efficient nurses. And then there are the others. They're not all the same. These problems are not fixed by more money, but need to be addressed by accountability in the workplace and pride of workmanship. I believe these issues stem from the top down and there has been a general degradation of the expectation of a job well done at PRH. A new tower won't fix this problem.
My family stayed 24hrs a day with my loved one and we had our own charting system and kept track of everything that was requested and prescribed by the doctors and what, when and how things were done. The documentation and information sharing system between drs and nurses at PRH is deplorable. The amount of information missed is shocking.

Legitimate and sincere constructive criticism is something to be accepted and used to make the situation better. It shouldn't be seen as ungrateful. I am thankful for the system we have. But I have witnessed some employed by it, taking advantage of our system by not doing their jobs well. That is a disservice to all of us.
Last edited by ferri on Jan 3rd, 2018, 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Personal attack

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Re: Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Postby southy » Jan 3rd, 2018, 4:02 pm

totoramona .. I just don't get it. No matter how I add it up your posts always seem to total Twobits ... why is that??
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Re: Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Postby twobits » Jan 3rd, 2018, 6:53 pm

southy wrote:totoramona .. I just don't get it. No matter how I add it up your posts always seem to total Twobits ... why is that??


Because emotional connection always overrides the logical thought process. It's human nature and I get that and respect that but it does not change the reality of service for the greater good of all rather than the service one might wish for for those near and dear. As much as we may dislike that reality, the level of care is shared with the resources that are available.
And what is disheartening, is some people trying to say they "heard nurses" talking about personal matters. Holy crap. What kind of expectations are put on these people where they can't have some personal banter while at work without it being held against them? I thought slavery was abolished in Canada in 1797?
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Re: Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Postby totoramona » Jan 3rd, 2018, 8:15 pm

twobits wrote:It's human nature and I get that and respect that but it does not change the reality of service for the greater good of all rather than the service one might wish for for those near and dear. As much as we may dislike that reality, the level of care is shared with the resources that are available.


We were told that just to be in the bed our loved one was in cost $1000 a day. We are all paying our various levels of taxes to have this bed available to us in a time need. Twobits, are you suggesting that expecting standard cleanliness and infection control, expecting proper medication on time, to be taken to the washroom and cleaned up properly, and fed and hydrated while in hospital is unreasonable for $1000 a day? Is that being entitled?

Holding people and the system to account for how it is supposed to operate is necessary and what actually safeguards the system for us all! Allowing shoddy workmanship, wastefulness and neglect is what ruins a system. We all want our beloved Canadian medical system to work. We are all thankful for it. The people who witness deficiencies and bring them up to those in charge should be thanked and commended, not put down as entitled whiners.

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Re: Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Postby twobits » Jan 4th, 2018, 7:29 pm

I am sorry that you and Bunny have had less than stellar experiences. But yes, I do think you feel entitled to something beyond what the system can provide. In addition to that, I don't think you have any clue as to what entirely makes up the cost of 1000 dollars a day for a bed. I would actually doubt you have ever run any kind of business, and health care is a business, or you might understand some of the costs involved.
Just be thankful you have the level of care that is provided to you despite some of it's failings. You have available to you what 75% of the world would consider utopia of medical care and you want to preach to a choir of one. Get a grip or try to get yourself onto the Hospital board to create your vision and then see what the realities of delivering health care really are.
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Re: Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Postby totoramona » Jan 4th, 2018, 9:56 pm

Twobits, what I have described was not just a "less than stellar" experience at PRH. It very sadly became a dangerous and harmful experience. Wrong medication dosage or timing is dangerous. Improper use of medical equipment is dangerous. Leaving bedrails down with a serious fall risk patient is harmful.

To your assumption, I actually do run a successful small business that has supported my family for more than 22 years now. I would suggest that our healthcare system is not run like a business at all. It is a publicly funded essential service that is run very differently than a business.

On a brighter note, in the past, I have formally brought some of my more serious concerns forward to two different hospitals in two different health regions. In both cases, high level procedural changes were made to rectify the specific situations. So I do know what I am talking about and I have seen some good come of identifying legitimate concerns and addressing them with the right people. Thankfully those people did not share your attitude that any thing less than cheerful acceptance of a situation is simply a sign ingratitude.
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Re: Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Postby twobits » Jan 6th, 2018, 5:54 pm

totoramona wrote:Twobits, what I have described was not just a "less than stellar" experience at PRH. It very sadly became a dangerous and harmful experience. Wrong medication dosage or timing is dangerous. Improper use of medical equipment is dangerous. Leaving bedrails down with a serious fall risk patient is harmful.

To your assumption, I actually do run a successful small business that has supported my family for more than 22 years now. I would suggest that our healthcare system is not run like a business at all. It is a publicly funded essential service that is run very differently than a business.

On a brighter note, in the past, I have formally brought some of my more serious concerns forward to two different hospitals in two different health regions. In both cases, high level procedural changes were made to rectify the specific situations. So I do know what I am talking about and I have seen some good come of identifying legitimate concerns and addressing them with the right people. Thankfully those people did not share your attitude that any thing less than cheerful acceptance of a situation is simply a sign ingratitude.

And good on you for bringing up deficiencies you see and actually effecting change. You can however do that without going onto a public forum and saying that PRH is a "dangerous and harmful experience". That is just plain irresponsible in my opinion and a direct attack on all of the dedicated professionals that try to deliver health care to us.
I am not sure if you are a germaphobe or just a Henny Penny with your alarmist opinions of a hospital the serves 80k people of the region. Or a Union member or family of someone in housekeeping or laundry that has been outsourced.
PRH does not deserve your wrath or condemnation and as far as I can see, there are magnitudes more that express their gratitude for care here than the cpl of you here with personal axes to grind. Both myself as well as any of my extended family have always received what I consider stellar care at PRH. ER wait times might be an exception but I think that is universal to all hospitals and life emergencies are not sitting in the ER intake area either.
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Re: Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Postby totoramona » Jan 6th, 2018, 7:25 pm

twobits wrote:And good on you for bringing up deficiencies you see and actually effecting change. You can however do that without going onto a public forum and saying that PRH is a "dangerous and harmful experience". That is just plain irresponsible in my opinion and a direct attack on all of the dedicated professionals that try to deliver health care to us.


I am sure we won't see eye to eye on this topic, twobits. But why not go on a public forum to discuss this? My loved one experienced the effects of dangerous and harmful incompetence and/or neglect by some staff at PRH. Her health was compromised and worsened because of it. That was our reality. We attempted to address it, mitigate it and improve it at the time. I don't see anything wrong with talking about it. My message to others is, if a loved one is in hospital, they may need your help to oversee and advocate on their behalf. If your loved one's voice is at all impeded by age, dementia, medication or special needs, they are especially vulnerable. I agree that there are many dedicated professionals in health care. Of course there are. But as in any profession there are the "not so dedicated". In my opinion, PRH has a problem.
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Re: Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Postby twobits » Jan 6th, 2018, 8:41 pm

totoramona wrote: In my opinion, PRH has a problem.


And you are entitled to that opinion but I would humbly suggest you are preaching to a choir of two here that support your position so please don't make PRH out to be the disaster you would like it to be portrayed as. I will defer my judgement on that assessment should I see a flood of posts come in to support your position. Somehow, I doubt it and that should tell you that perhaps most do not have the same concerns about PRH that you do.
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Re: Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Postby totoramona » Yesterday, 11:53 pm

And here is yet another case of alleged mishandling, mistakes, incompetence and neglect...

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-216885-21-.htm#216885

I am sad to hear about more suffering as a result of such a lack of care. It is good that a light is being shone on the people involved. Change needs to take place and I hope some leadership emerges to address these problems.
Last edited by totoramona on Jan 22nd, 2018, 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penticton Hospital's Dreadful Reputation

Postby LANDM » Today, 5:11 am

I haven’t read the entire thread....I usually try to before commenting, but the recent posts form OsoyoosFamilyof4 was criticizing procedural and staff performance issues which are very valid. And from a personal encounter.
I don’t believe this should be an argument of going elsewhere as it appears they are problems that should not exist within our current system at current funding. My experiences at the kelowna hospital (family and friends) has been largely non-negative so it can be done.
As clearly stated, I don’t know the prior history of the thread but there is nothing wrong with OFOF's recent comments or expectations. I hope her (?) health issues improve.
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