Heavy police presence

[twobits]

Isn't this a "smuggling firearms into Canada" issue more than another FN issue that seems to be overblown by a select few on these forums?

Who cares about the background of the individual, its a major thing and a crime.

As for his opinions on Canada or the government, this is just another Freeman style nut job who is ignoring the fact he is Canadian and is choosing this ideal to justify his actions. Nothing more.

Holy smoke. The dancing around political correctness here is amazing. This is not about being racist. We as a society generally condemn the actions and beliefs of nut job Freemen and express that sentiment freely publically. Here we have someone who is basically claiming the same nut job exemptions from Canadian laws not because he thinks taxation or the Constitution is illegal, but because is is a member of a specific identifiable race. Can't you see the difference here? What capital would FN leadership spend to simply put out a press release that says "We do not agree with or condon the actions of this FN member"? There are identifiable groups all over the world struggling with many different causes or issues and when a "renegade" member crosses the line and claims immunity or justification of crossing the line by the simple membership in an identifiable group, the responsible collective of that group will issue a simple statement clarifying they do not condone the actions. Some even condemn.
That's what my point is. The only reason race is a part of this discussion is because the dude chose to make his FN status a reason for justification of his crime. I am pretty confidant that this guy is a minority in his beliefs within his own community of people. All I am suggesting is that silence from FN leadership only gives reason for people to wonder if that silence means that the logic of this nut job smuggling guns into Canada is common among the membership. Similarly with the Elk cow kills, would it not have been nice to hear from leadership that while we maintain our right to harvest for ceremonial purposes, in the recognition of conservation and private property rights, this was an inappropriate harvest. Simple.
Stuff like that builds bridges within communities and cultures rather than erect walls of suspicion.

[coffeeFreak]

Holy smoke. The dancing around political correctness here is amazing. This is not about being racist. We as a society generally condemn the actions and beliefs of nut job Freemen and express that sentiment freely publically. Here we have someone who is basically claiming the same nut job exemptions from Canadian laws not because he thinks taxation or the Constitution is illegal, but because is is a member of a specific identifiable race. Can't you see the difference here? What capital would FN leadership spend to simply put out a press release that says "We do not agree with or condon the actions of this FN member"? There are identifiable groups all over the world struggling with many different causes or issues and when a "renegade" member crosses the line and claims immunity or justification of crossing the line by the simple membership in an identifiable group, the responsible collective of that group will issue a simple statement clarifying they do not condone the actions. Some even condemn.
That's what my point is. The only reason race is a part of this discussion is because the dude chose to make his FN status a reason for justification of his crime. I am pretty confidant that this guy is a minority in his beliefs within his own community of people. All I am suggesting is that silence from FN leadership only gives reason for people to wonder if that silence means that the logic of this nut job smuggling guns into Canada is common among the membership. Similarly with the Elk cow kills, would it not have been nice to hear from leadership that while we maintain our right to harvest for ceremonial purposes, in the recognition of conservation and private property rights, this was an inappropriate harvest. Simple.
Stuff like that builds bridges within communities and cultures rather than erect walls of suspicion.

You really have tunnel vision on this one twobits. Why can't you see that your expectations are unrealistic here? If a Ukranian man from Penticton committed a similar crime, would you really expect the Ukranian community in Penticton to address the man's actions?

[XT225]

You really have tunnel vision on this one twobits. Why can't you see that your expectations are unrealistic here? If a Ukranian man from Penticton committed a similar crime, would you really expect the Ukranian community in Penticton to address the man's actions?

I think the point that twobits was making is that the culprit in question claimed that he did not recognize the laws of Canada.
I bet this same person would not down a Government of Canada cheque, should one appear in his mailbox? If one did, he should not recognize it and tear it up. A fair point, I think. Every person in Canada who breaks the law should be treated equally. I doubt that the story would have even mentioned that he was a FN person; had he not stated what he did about non-recognition.

[twobits]

You really have tunnel vision on this one twobits. Why can't you see that your expectations are unrealistic here? If a Ukranian man from Penticton committed a similar crime, would you really expect the Ukranian community in Penticton to address the man's actions?

You bet your sweet *bleep* I would if he claimed he was exempt because he was Ukrainian. And I am pretty sure the Ukrainian community would be stepping up to the plate and disavow that the nut job reflected the Ukrainian community's views.

[onestop67]

You really have tunnel vision on this one twobits. Why can't you see that your expectations are unrealistic here? If a Ukranian man from Penticton committed a similar crime, would you really expect the Ukranian community in Penticton to address the man's actions?

You bet your sweet *bleep* I would if he claimed he was exempt because he was Ukrainian. And I am pretty sure the Ukrainian community would be stepping up to the plate and disavow that the nut job reflected the Ukrainian community's views.

So just because a person claims he's Ukranian, the Ukranian community should be obligated to make a public comment disavowing that person? Why? It's not their fault some nut bar that comes from their country has named that as a defense. No different than this actual situation where the FN guy made a claim against not recognizing Canada...and YOU expect the FN to make a comment. It's obvious the guy is either nuts, or he is pre-planning his defense for court to get off on gun smuggling charges.

Yes, twobits, you are definitely being racist.

[fluffy]

As a member of the overtly opinionated white community, I apologize for twobits' mistakes.

[southy]

As a member of the overtly opinionated white community, I apologize for twobits' mistakes.

I for one would really like to know what exactly it is that you are apologizing for?

[fluffy]

I for one would really like to know what exactly it is that you are apologizing for?

It was a backhanded comment on his suggestion that members of any given "community" are obliged to speak out against transgressions of other members of that community.

[XT225]

The only reason race is a part of this discussion is because the dude chose to make his FN status a reason for justification of his crime. I am pretty confidant that this guy is a minority in his beliefs within his own community of people.

This is the point and its a good one. No need for anyone from the FN to speak out against or justify twobits' comment. The culprit in question said it quite clearly himself. The media and the person were the ones who made it a FN issue in the first place.
I don't personally care if the crook is a FN, Italian, East Indian, African, etc etc, nor do I expect anyone but himself to admit that he was wrong.

[fluffy]

I don't personally care if the crook is a FN, Italian, East Indian, African, etc etc, nor do I expect anyone but himself to admit that he was wrong.

Exactly. More important is his status as a crook than any other association he might have.

[southy]

Fluffy, I refuse to get drawn into this game. Go back and read Twobits posts from the beginning of this thread. I honestly believe you just might be missing what he is really saying. And no - I'm not going to spell it out for you. You can do that. I see a group of you trying to start something that doesn't need starting and you sir should be more aware of this than anyone, I know you know what I mean!!

[fluffy]

Fluffy, I refuse to get drawn into this game.

Then don't. You are entitled to your own opinion on this matter, but if your aim here is to discredit me without offering any significant input of your own, then the problem is all yours, not mine.

[twobits]

You don't know how many people are nodding their heads in agreement with me on this but not participating in the discussion for even in anonymity, the aversion to being wrongly labelled a racist.
I am hardly a racist. Not learning English until I was 6 yrs old I experienced plenty of it first hand, as did my entire family, from the WASP's of this country. That however does not mean that people should dance to the tune of political correctness at the expense of their freedom of expression.

[Dawnland]

The only reason race is a part of this discussion is because the dude chose to make his FN status a reason for justification of his crime. I am pretty confidant that this guy is a minority in his beliefs within his own community of people. All I am suggesting is that silence from FN leadership only gives reason for people to wonder if that silence means that the logic of this nut job smuggling guns into Canada is common among the membership.

If you are pretty confident about it, why are you seeking validation?

I would like to remind people of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. Those armed men forcefully commandeered a Federal reserve based on the sovereign citizen movement. Many pleaded guilty and many, including Ammon and Ryan Bundy, have been tried and acquitted of all federal charges. Did you hear from any one addressing their beliefs?
Race and beliefs are not conjoined. Also, race and beliefs do not equal stereotypical actions.
Just because one man, claims to have freeman beliefs, no justification, explanation or admonition is required by everyone else of that race, religion or country of origin. Freeman-ism is not race specific, if you believe you are a freeman, you will find justification for that belief, even if that justification is race.
If I believed you were racist, would I be able to pick out a few words from your posts to justify my belief? Does my justification make it true? Would your race spokesperson, pastor, mayor, Premier and Prime Minister then stand up and publish (worldwide) that they are not you?
By the way, there is no spokesperson for races. Any FN Leadership representative is not speaking on behalf of the race, only the membership that they have been elected to govern (govern does not mean mandated beliefs). The statements made are only on policy, intent, laws and claims relating to the GOVERNANCE of the Band.
FN Leadership, or any leadership, generally do not speak about people's beliefs, that's being politically correct.

[onestop67]

The only reason race is a part of this discussion is because the dude chose to make his FN status a reason for justification of his crime. I am pretty confidant that this guy is a minority in his beliefs within his own community of people. All I am suggesting is that silence from FN leadership only gives reason for people to wonder if that silence means that the logic of this nut job smuggling guns into Canada is common among the membership.

If you are pretty confident about it, why are you seeking validation?

Dawnland, I give you an infinite number of thumbs up for this. twobits just doesn't get it. Just because the guy brought up his FN status, twobits thinks the Band must need to make a statement to distance themselves. sigh...