Penticton: struggling to attract families?

[Queen K]

Demographics is hitting Penticton square in the face.
That families simply aren't moving or staying in Penticton seems to be a real concern to their city council.
So why aren't families moving to Penticton? Could it be the high *bleep* Real Estate prices?
Can't be the lack of amenities, beaches or climate.

So how would a small town like Penticton attract families?

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#198853

[fluffy]

Local government has wrestled with this for decades. The lack of decent paying jobs is a huge part of the problem. I've been living in this area for almost fifty years now and as long as I can remember except for a few it was a given that you left town to make enough money to settle here permanently.

[Queen K]

I wondered why it was even a news article.

Kelowna is the same way, go to university/trades/college = Work Elsewhere then come back reasonably well off to live here.

[rustled]

I wondered why it was even a news article.

Kelowna is the same way, go to university/trades/college = Work Elsewhere then come back reasonably well off to live here.

Higher overall percentage of retired folk, I think.

Several of the young-uns we know who've gone elsewhere to make the moola so they could come back to settle permanently have invested in fancy new trucks and toys instead. Lots of debt now.

IMO, council could do more to support the industrial area. Maybe they're hoping PIB will do that, so they won't have to.

[fluffy]

The trouble is that Penticton is a little off the beaten path for industry that serves anything other than a local market. Tourism and agriculture are a couple of notable exceptions but there's a depressingly long list of medium to large employers that have pulled up stakes due to transportation costs and reduced trade with the US. The tech industry holds some promise as business in the digital realm knows few geographical boundaries, the trick is getting them here.

[rustled]

True.

Still, when existing businesses in the industrial area have to convince the city to prioritize the efficient movement of trucks (and their ability to unload) over cycle paths and sidewalks, and proposed energy-saving measures take a back seat to aesthetics for the folk on the hill, something's amiss.

[Jhunter199]

The way I see it is that attracting industry jobs will bring younger people to work... Problem is where do you build new industry?
The Tech Sector is a great idea and I think in a few years once Kelowna becomes even more expensive they may realize that Penticton could be a good spot to set up shop.

[twobits]

I would suggest Penticton stop flogging the dead horses of industry. It ain't happened for 40 yrs and nadda is going to change that. Tourism will always be there but is only a seasonal business with low paying jobs. We should instead focus at what is already staring us straight in the face......the retirement market. while it is not sexy, it is a big money game. With seniors come disposable income and lots of it. They no longer do their own work so the trades service sector with good paying jobs will flourish. Medical and related support services will also flourish. These are also well paying jobs. You might be surprised at how many families these jobs would bring to town.
Palm Springs and Yuma see to do quite well don't they? Why is that?

[twobits]

Here's a perfect example of why these threads have become sparse. Post something that is contrary or out of the box to popular conception and everyone shuts up. I would welcome a critique of my suggestion. Some engagement even if opposing would be better than silence. It is supposed to be a discussion thread, not a spew the mantra thread.

[Osoyoos_Familyof4]

You have a reasonable argument @ twobits in regards to Palm Springs and Yuma, it does prove a place will succeed as a one trick pony show.

However, in a place like Penticton I think it is doomed unless it manages to get an industry (preferably tech). I'd be interested as well in some kind of new clean energy industry, we sure get a lot of sun (maybe developing better solar technologies to increase long term battery cells with solar). I am not a techie, that's just me trying to have hope for humanity. I also think legal marijuana might be an option with our weather, water, and our rich history of small scale marijuana growers. I think however that can only survive if it finds a niche like "organic" weed, non GMO etc. etc. Eventually the big pharma will buy up all the smaller guys and pot will come from Pfizer. But a boutique product weed might be something for someone who is a much better gardener than I. Wine of course is not going anywhere, and I think we really will be Napa North some day.

However, the retirement cities you mentioned also are in an area where foreign workers are keeping the place rolling. Lots of both illegal and legal Mexicans have for a long time kept the Southern States going. Of course all predicated on low-wages, little to no regulations for the employers to work the Mexicans 10+ hours a day for a pittance.

Therefore, if you're asking if Penticton can survive strictly as a tourist town? Sure. But I can't see it attracting families this way. Unless Canada decides to exploit migrants in the same way USA does, it will never grow much larger than it is and will always have a large disparity between the haves and have nots.

[southy]

Here's a perfect example of why these threads have become sparse. Post something that is contrary or out of the box to popular conception and everyone shuts up. I would welcome a critique of my suggestion. Some engagement even if opposing would be better than silence. It is supposed to be a discussion thread, not a spew the mantra thread.

Well said Twobits! I do agree with you that the seniors market is where the focus needs to be. Are there opportunities? You bet there are. Money? Again - yes. I also think that tourism and targeting the senior market could go hand in hand. This doesn't mean (ooops this where it gets touchy) that Penticton's tourism group/groups ( who are they exactly and what do they do?) shouldn't forget about the family vacationers. But there are opportunities to target both demographics in creative ways promoting Penticton as the go to place. Twobits, you speak of Palm Springs and Yuma - well having been to both - I'll take Penticton anyday. For those who don't know - the south Okanagan has become the winter getaway for many prairie seniors who can't go across the border due to health issues. Most end up in Oliver and Osoyoos - why can't Penticton take share of those people? Elliot Lake in northern Ontario has been doing a very good campaign promoting the fact that it is a great affordable place for seniors. Hell - we've got a lot more going for us than Elliot Lake. But I have to ask the question one more time. Who is going to promote it? Just take a moment and ask yourself some ...."what if" questions. That is - what if Penticton had ______________ to offer the senior demo. What if Penticton had _________________ to target prairie folks in the winter. It's endless. I see where Peter Weeber over in the big building on main is now taking over economic development - perhaps he can find a way to pull our tourism organization together to work in unison and target those demo's that actually have money and a reason to come here.

[fluffy]

We should instead focus at what is already staring us straight in the face......the retirement market. while it is not sexy, it is a big money game. With seniors come disposable income and lots of it. They no longer do their own work so the trades service sector with good paying jobs will flourish. Medical and related support services will also flourish. These are also well paying jobs. You might be surprised at how many families these jobs would bring to town.

The retirement demographic has been a large part of the local economy for decades now, you'd think that some these good jobs you speak of would have surfaced by now. There has been some benefit for the construction industry for sure, but as far permanent jobs precious few of those supply enough of an income to support a growing family. I agree that seniors have money to spend, but I also notice that with the time they have on their hands they are the first to make the road trip to take that money out of town, be it a day trip to Kelowna or Omak, or a longer stay in Vancouver or Spokane.

[good-cause-girl]

In 1973 my parents moved us to a High rise apartment building downtown Calgary. Rented while house hunting. No problem
In 1977 I got my first apartment/ townhouse with 2 girl friends.Total complex was roughly 120 units. No problem.
In 1982 I got married and moved into a rental in a building with 48 units and a pool , yay. No problem.
In 1994 I took a break from that husband and rented a nice place with 3 bedrooms and lots of play area for all the kids that lived there. No problem.
In 2002 I left that husband for good and found a nice apartment in a lovely 20 unit townhome complex. No problem.

Now I will almost put my life down on the fact that every one of these buildings have gone on to become Condos.
For sure 4 of them have. Becoming a problem.
A very large portion of these Condos have a owner occupy clause. Meaning no more rentals allowed. Very much a problem.

In the big yawn of this whole thing is that what used to be available for people to rent has now become totally off limits.

If there is no place willing to rent then people in various stages of their world they will have no where to go.

Long and short here. Condos are the problem. Absolute rules are the problem. What used to be there for people is no longer there. This is how we created such a problem with homeless people. Buying is not an option for everyone and if that is you then you will have to reside somewhere right? In the car, friends couch or in the park it is all the same story, no where to rent.

Then when you do have a rental unit you can charge an obscene amount of money and close the door on anyone in a 'starter- life change- in between' time and cater to the people who can afford it. Most of those do not want kids or animals. (I was charged for my cat because she totally killed the front door screen and life was still very much okay, .. thing is I was allowed to have her. Now she would most likely have to be put down so I could have a home). This is not how we should treat our fellow beings.

Stop selling all the 'apartments' . Some are okay but the market has become saturated and the results are quite clear.

My opinion.

[twobits]

The retirement demographic has been a large part of the local economy for decades now, you'd think that some these good jobs you speak of would have surfaced by now. There has been some benefit for the construction industry for sure, but as far permanent jobs precious few of those supply enough of an income to support a growing family. I agree that seniors have money to spend, but I also notice that with the time they have on their hands they are the first to make the road trip to take that money out of town, be it a day trip to Kelowna or Omak, or a longer stay in Vancouver or Spokane.

Those jobs are here and they are recession proof too. They are just not obvious. Besides the obvious medical services, there are hearing techs, denturists, mobility sales and service, orthopedics, pharmacy, ....yada yada. All good paying jobs. And as I said before, seniors tend to not be able to do a lot of work they used to do themselves so painters, plumbers, handymen, auto mechanics ect all do well with seniors. Again, good paying trades. And before we belittle the guy mowing the lawn and and the gal doing house cleaning (not meaning to be sexist stereotypical)..... I know of two guys that do yard maintenance for seniors that make 60k net for a 7 month season of work and a gal that charges 30 buck an hr for cleaning and has to turn down work.
Bottom line is that retirement is a serious big money industry that should be promoted rather than wasting millions on sidewalks and parking bollards for a 3 month season of campground attendee's, chambermaids, and waitresses that pay little more than min wage. Those jobs will always be there because of our location. We need the jobs that will be there longer than three months and sustain a yearly income rather than EI based on min wage.
The only places that are successful in promoting tourism have an annual season or at the very least, 8 months. Penticton is flogging a dead horse with 3 months and 2 marginal shoulder season months.

[twobits]

In 1973 my parents moved us to a High rise apartment building downtown Calgary. Rented while house hunting. No problem
In 1977 I got my first apartment/ townhouse with 2 girl friends.Total complex was roughly 120 units. No problem.
In 1982 I got married and moved into a rental in a building with 48 units and a pool , yay. No problem.
In 1994 I took a break from that husband and rented a nice place with 3 bedrooms and lots of play area for all the kids that lived there. No problem.
In 2002 I left that husband for good and found a nice apartment in a lovely 20 unit townhome complex. No problem.

Now I will almost put my life down on the fact that every one of these buildings have gone on to become Condos.
For sure 4 of them have. Becoming a problem.
A very large portion of these Condos have a owner occupy clause. Meaning no more rentals allowed. Very much a problem.

In the big yawn of this whole thing is that what used to be available for people to rent has now become totally off limits.

If there is no place willing to rent then people in various stages of their world they will have no where to go.

Long and short here. Condos are the problem. Absolute rules are the problem. What used to be there for people is no longer there. This is how we created such a problem with homeless people. Buying is not an option for everyone and if that is you then you will have to reside somewhere right? In the car, friends couch or in the park it is all the same story, no where to rent.

Then when you do have a rental unit you can charge an obscene amount of money and close the door on anyone in a 'starter- life change- in between' time and cater to the people who can afford it. Most of those do not want kids or animals. (I was charged for my cat because she totally killed the front door screen and life was still very much okay, .. thing is I was allowed to have her. Now she would most likely have to be put down so I could have a home). This is not how we should treat our fellow beings.

Stop selling all the 'apartments' . Some are okay but the market has become saturated and the results are quite clear.

My opinion.

Too bad you couldn't be a landlord for a while. You might then understand why buildings convert to strata sale rather than remain in the rental market. Three piece suit tenant applicants that trash the asset beyond the 1/2 month damage deposit. Tenants that think it's "normal" wear and tear for a pet to scratch the chit out of the wall, door, screen, and occasionally have an "accident" on the carpeting. Tenants that figure out it will cost more to move the junk furniture, old pots and pans, clean the fridge and stove, wash the walls and have the carpets professionally cleaned than it is to just walk away from it all for the price of 1/2 months rent. And the landlord inherits that on the last day of the month when they can legally inspect the place so they have lost the next months rent too cuz they have to clean up the chit and repair the damage. Add to that the City's requirement that the landlord must now also pay the last two months of unpaid utilities or it will just be added to the property tax bill.
Do you understand that or should I also go into how the Residential Tenancy Act gives all power to the tenant and virtually lip service to the landlord. Non payment of rent? Sure, the Act gives the landlord the tool of a 5 day eviction notice, after which the landlord can legally evict the tent. Legal being the key word here. Cuz now legal is not the end of the game. If the tenant still does not leave, you cannot go in and move their possessions out. You need a court order to do so. That requires more money, applications, and time to finally get authority to do so. All without rent being paid. And even after all of this, you remove their belongings and haul them to the dump because they have basically abandoned them anyway, you can be sued by the tenant for the loss of their belongings if you have not hauled them away and paid for safe and secure storage of the items for the tenant . And if you dare haul the bed and couch to the landfill, you can be sure that the tenant will claim the couch was leather and the bed was a 2k pillow top they bought 2 yrs ago and had no reason to keep the receipt. Notice to rentors....take pictures. I learned the hard way by Tenancy Act savvy tenants.
Do you still wonder why there is a lack of rentals available?

Edit to add- Am curious as to what you thought your cat destroying the screen door was worth? Should the landlord have spent his time, money, fuel, etc and gone to the hardware store to do it as cheap as possible for the deduction from the damage deposit or called ABC door sand windows to do it for $300.