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Barefoot Beach Access

Re: Barefoot Beach Access

Postby Dawnland » Aug 1st, 2017, 3:53 pm

twobits wrote:Partners in the community only when it is someone else's money.

Twobits...c'mon now man, you KNOW this beach is not owned by the Band.
The Band always promotes a mutual partnership between our communities but we cannot control
what individual members or residents do.
We are partners in community as represented during the flooding emergency response, the fire dangers
and expanded by-law regulations that have all been joint media releases. Some of our staff and community
members have volunteered at the Emergency Evacuation Centre. Our governance bodies work together
through protocol agreements with a referrals process and we have roles and responsibilities to each other which can only make
this region better.
Once again I will reiterate, there are private land owners on PIB, all of whom are capable and in control
of leasing permits on their own property.
What kind of partner are you? Who do you REALLY support?

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Re: Barefoot Beach Access

Postby Tony » Aug 1st, 2017, 4:27 pm

Dawnland wrote:
twobits wrote:Partners in the community only when it is someone else's money.

Twobits...c'mon now man, you KNOW this beach is not owned by the Band.
The Band always promotes a mutual partnership between our communities but we cannot control
what individual members or residents do.
We are partners in community as represented during the flooding emergency response, the fire dangers
and expanded by-law regulations that have all been joint media releases. Some of our staff and community
members have volunteered at the Emergency Evacuation Centre. Our governance bodies work together
through protocol agreements with a referrals process and we have roles and responsibilities to each other which can only make
this region better.
Once again I will reiterate, there are private land owners on PIB, all of whom are capable and in control
of leasing permits on their own property.
What kind of partner are you? Who do you REALLY support?


Who, then praytell, owns that beach Dawnland? Shouldn't the Band take ownership and advise them to clean it up? That would be the prudent thing to do.
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Re: Barefoot Beach Access

Postby XT225 » Aug 1st, 2017, 4:35 pm

Tony wrote:
Who, then praytell, owns that beach Dawnland? Shouldn't the Band take ownership and advise them to clean it up? That would be the prudent thing to do.


The locatee doesn't appear to have to listen to the Band. That rule should be changed, much like the city can force its residents to clean up their properties if they are unkept.
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Re: Barefoot Beach Access

Postby twobits » Aug 1st, 2017, 7:35 pm

Dawnland wrote:[
Twobits...c'mon now man, you KNOW this beach is not owned by the Band.
The Band always promotes a mutual partnership between our communities but we cannot control
what individual members or residents do.


Dawnland.....c'mon now girl, maybe it's long overdue that the band got some control over locatee lands if you want a true and inclusive relationship. The City has bylaws that govern the state and disrepair of properties. Warnings are issued and following non compliance, work is done and added to the title of the property to ensure payment.
And quite frankly, myself and many others are very tired of the "we have no control over what locatee's do"...."we have no control over individuals poor hunting choices"....."we have no control over the owners of horses on the hwy".
You want a community partnership? Then get some control and quit deflecting to the "we have no authority over individual owner actions".
Respect is earned by example, not excuses.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.

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Re: Barefoot Beach Access

Postby Dawnland » Aug 1st, 2017, 10:23 pm

The city has control?! Really? As evidenced by what margin? There was a story just today about a derelict property on Westminster that has been violating for years. They do just enough to get by...oh yeah, the city has REAL 'control over THAT situation. The Locatee owner had many successful years of lease agreements for access with the city. It's only been the last three or so where the relationship has not been the same...but, from reading the article, it looks like the city saved about 40k in costs each year, by delaying the agreement, but yeah...let's just complain some more.

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Re: Barefoot Beach Access

Postby Tony » Aug 2nd, 2017, 5:09 am

XT225 wrote:
Tony wrote:
Who, then praytell, owns that beach Dawnland? Shouldn't the Band take ownership and advise them to clean it up? That would be the prudent thing to do.


The locatee doesn't appear to have to listen to the Band. That rule should be changed, much like the city can force its residents to clean up their properties if they are unkept.


Then issue the locatee a fine and clean up the area and charge it back to him. If he doesn't pay the bill, then he gets no benefits from the Band until the bill is paid.
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Re: Barefoot Beach Access

Postby XT225 » Aug 2nd, 2017, 6:35 am

Dawnland wrote:The city has control?! Really? As evidenced by what margin? There was a story just today about a derelict property on Westminster that has been violating for years. They do just enough to get by...oh yeah, the city has REAL 'control over THAT situation. The Locatee owner had many successful years of lease agreements for access with the city. It's only been the last three or so where the relationship has not been the same...but, from reading the article, it looks like the city saved about 40k in costs each year, by delaying the agreement, but yeah...let's just complain some more.


You better read the latest on that property on Westminster Ave (article in today's paper); the city is fed up with the owner not complying and is now hiring a contractor to do the work and charge back the owner. If they don't pay, it will go on their taxes. Does the band in general not have any rules about keeping properties tidy? IF so, can they not enforce such rules?
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Re: Barefoot Beach Access

Postby Bunnyhop » Aug 2nd, 2017, 6:43 am

At this point, I'm just glad the beach is being cleaned and free public access has been restored in exchange. A good deal for the city/taxpayer as there is no lease cost.

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Re: Barefoot Beach Access

Postby Dawnland » Aug 2nd, 2017, 8:45 am

XT225 wrote:If they don't pay, it will go on their taxes.

Well, just so you have some context to how it is out here on the Rez...because y'all think you know so much....
We don't pay taxes on our own land, it doesn't cost us to live here. Only leasees pay tax on the land that they lease.
Our tax laws were enacted in 2007 and we only started collecting taxes in 2008. Prior to that, the BC government was collecting taxes on leases on PIB lands and NOT transferring them to PIB. How much tax do you think were collected on Red Wing Estates or the Game Farm, Holiday Hills or Coyote Cruises (RIP Kirk Cartwright)? An additional taxation nugget, how much tax do you think was collected on the KVR?
To those people suggesting that PIB withdraw all services to Locatee land owners who do not take care of their property, it's a good thing we don't throw away people because they don't conform to society standards. That's not who we are, never have been, never will be.
twobits wrote: maybe it's long overdue that the band got some control over locatee lands if you want a true and inclusive relationship.
It'll never be a true and inclusive relationship if the condition is, we have to be just like you. Our governance is not the same, neither land ownership, it won't ever be, luckily we have people who understand we don't have to be the same to do business.
Last edited by Dawnland on Aug 2nd, 2017, 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Barefoot Beach Access

Postby southy » Aug 2nd, 2017, 9:20 am

I'm always amazed that in this day and age it always has to come down to an US vs THEM senerio.
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Re: Barefoot Beach Access

Postby Sparki55 » Aug 2nd, 2017, 10:14 am

southy wrote:I'm always amazed that in this day and age it always has to come down to an US vs THEM scenario.


Dawnland wrote:It'll never be a true and inclusive relationship if the condition is, we have to be just like you. Our governance is not the same, neither land ownership, it won't ever be, luckily we have people who understand we don't have to be the same to do business.


This is why it is us vs them. Two completely different people trying to share land close in distance. Neighbours with no borders with a different set of laws.

There is a lab study video where two monkeys in side by side cages were both given the same food. One day the first monkey received food that was way better looking and tasting and the second monkey was fed the same item they were both fed the day before. The monkey fed the lesser food immediately threw a fit and complained.

Us vs Them will exist until everyone is treated the same. It's in our instincts to complain until everything is fair, especially when the unfairness is directly in line of sight.
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Re: Barefoot Beach Access

Postby Dawnland » Aug 2nd, 2017, 11:04 am

Sparki55 wrote:Us vs Them will exist until everyone is treated the same. It's in our instincts to complain until everything is fair, especially when the unfairness is directly in line of sight.

Are you looking for fair or are you looking for equity?
For at least 7 generations the Indigenous people have had to fight to have their rights recognized and protected. Even something as simple as access to education and healthcare. We are still asking for equity...recognize the rights and title of the Sylix people and allow the opportunity to participate in the economic arena that has been provided to non-Indigenous communities for the last 150 years.
Did you know that when an Indigenous child is in the care of the ministry, they receive less than non-Indigenous children in care, why? The same goes for dental and health coverage, disability payments, and education. Why? Equality or Equity?
I have a notion that mainstream John-Q public doesn't understand that when dealing with a First Nation, they are dealing with a government body equal to the federal government. A locatee land owner is like a province within the Federal body and a leasee is like a corporation with a resource license like a mining or forestry permit. It took mainstream Canada 150 years to get where is has and in that time, the main goal of the government was to integrate into society the notion and understanding that Indigenous Canadian are ripping you off. They did a good job.
I know that we are smarter than monkeys and we are smart enough to take a critical look at ourselves and accept that we are not equal and still be OK with that.

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Re: Barefoot Beach Access

Postby seewood » Aug 2nd, 2017, 12:07 pm

"How much tax do you think were collected on Red Wing Estates"

Enough to cover the cost of potable water, fire, sewer, police...

The first nations and equality question is slowly getting resolved in my opinion but with three levels of government plus the local band government all expecting to supplying different services, a lot of finger pointing is happening. perhaps time to make a decision as to who is responsible for education and healthcare for example, if the province, the money for those services has to come from somewhere. If federal provide it to the province's standards.

Now, glad to hear the Barefoot beach is open to the public again without an admission fee having to be paid.
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Re: Barefoot Beach Access

Postby Osoyoos_Familyof4 » Aug 2nd, 2017, 7:19 pm

Now that in the last 10 years the Indigenous people can collect their own taxes on their land it will be very interesting to see where they take their businesses and partnerships. I would gladly pay a fee to use a well maintained beach, that maybe even had "luxury" services like delivery of food or wine/beer. Man, even come around with floaties for the kids, have nice deck loungers, shade gazebos, sand toys. And a lifeguard! Wow I would love it if I could have a few beers or a glass of wine and the kids were being professionally watched by a lifeguard (I'm not talking about getting drunk - so save your righteous indignation).

I do find it sickening that people who have "complained" many times on this board about "Native privileges" just can't seem to accept the fact that Indigenous people have historically been given the crumbs over and over again and don't have to pander to our cultural values anymore if they don't share that perspective. It seems to me that we have done a spectacular job at screwing with them and patronizing them, and I welcome the new-order and can't wait for it to get even more equitable.

If you think we've done "too much" for First Nations people, you really need to do your history classes over and get a clue. Nothing in history recent or not so recent is impressive enough to repeat.

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Re: Barefoot Beach Access

Postby Anonymous123 » Aug 2nd, 2017, 8:18 pm

XT225 wrote:If they don't pay, it will go on their taxes.

Dawnland wrote:Well, just so you have some context to how it is out here on the Rez...because y'all think you know so much....
We don't pay taxes on our own land, it doesn't cost us to live here. Only leasees pay tax on the land that they lease.
Our tax laws were enacted in 2007 and we only started collecting taxes in 2008. Prior to that, the BC government was collecting taxes on leases on PIB lands and NOT transferring them to PIB. How much tax do you think were collected on Red Wing Estates or the Game Farm, Holiday Hills or Coyote Cruises (RIP Curt Cartwright)? An additional taxation nugget, how much tax do you think was collected on the KVR?
To those people suggesting that PIB withdraw all services to Locatee land owners who do not take care of their property, it's a good thing we don't throw away people because they don't conform to society standards. That's not who we are, never have been, never will be.

twobits wrote: maybe it's long overdue that the band got some control over locatee lands if you want a true and inclusive relationship.

Dawnland wrote:It'll never be a true and inclusive relationship if the condition is, we have to be just like you. Our governance is not the same, neither land ownership, it won't ever be, luckily we have people who understand we don't have to be the same to do business.


It's Kirk Cartwright, not Curt.
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