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Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Postby southy » Oct 20th, 2017, 6:08 am

This is it folks, it's official. As of today there is only one year left until the next municipal election. Put on your happy, do a little jig ... give a shout ... have a drink or two or three ... but most importantly remember. Remember the last 36 months and what has occurred and what has not occurred. Then one year from today ... REMEMBER TO VOTE!! I'm so damn excited, it's almost over folks ... breathe deeply and sleep well tonight knowing change is a coming.
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Re: Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Postby Darkre » Oct 20th, 2017, 7:23 am

Alright Southy, I’ll bite. What exactly has the current council done that is so terrible?

Please keep in mind that it was the previous council that created the Skaha Park debacle. After all, it was the previous council that sent out the RFP for Skaha Park that included waterslides as a suggested use for the property. It was the previous council that selected Trio’s proposal and it was the previous council that entered in to the long term agreement with Trio. It was also the previous council that gave Trio an open option to proceed with the waterslides without instituting a time frame for this option. Current council was contractually obligated to proceed with and sign the agreement. Current council also listened to the public outcry and eventually cancelled the project.

Also keep in mind that the current council moved to save the casino revenue that the city relies on to keep your taxes lower. In fact, now that the casino is on city owned property, the city will have access to a significantly larger revenue stream thanks to the Development Assistance Compensation fund. Combined these add up to close to $6 million per year. The threat of this revenue going to the native lands was very likely had the city not stepped forward. Parking may be an issue for now but this will likely change going forward.

One last thing to keep in mind. Had the city not kept the casino in city limits, spent the money on the downtown beautification and expanded the Economic Action Zone, it’s likely that we would not be seeing the economic activity that we are now seeing. 2 new hotels plus the expansion at Lakeside, 2 motels purchased recently (and hopefully renovated or torn down for new hotels), 2 new downtown condo developments.

People complained about the lack of communication from City Hall so they hired a communications spokesperson. Then people complained about their tax dollars being spent on another city employee. It seems that no matter what this council does people complain and I don’t see the justification for it. They’ve done some really good things and some things that haven’t been that great but you can say that for any city council anywhere. This council hasn’t been perfect but none are.
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Re: Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Postby southy » Oct 20th, 2017, 9:04 am

Darke, thanks for your opinion. I didn't start this thread to get into a peeing match over who did what and why. You seem very close to what this council has done, could there be a reason for that?? Just asking. Your last paragraph pretty well sums it up. Yes, people were/are complaining about this mayor and council and probably with good reason. And Darke I suspect you know the reasons as well. I leave it at that knowing full well that in a years time will have a major change in the mayors chair and council.

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Re: Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Postby JagXKR » Oct 20th, 2017, 10:23 am

So who is replacing the council and mayor? Are you running? I am not being facetious but really want to know who would be replacing the mayor and councillors. Maybe a change is needed but without a quality replacement it is better to have experienced people stay. I can not get excited about anything that has such unknowns. The old adage of "anything is better" does not apply.
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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Re: Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Postby seewood » Oct 20th, 2017, 11:17 am

The more I see and read here regarding politics, regardless municipal, provincial, federal and locally the PIB, I see it more and more a thankless job. Once in the job, what edifice can I build to show my now 4 years in office. The population seems so polarized on just about every issue, a consensus on any decision is virtually impossible and the ones in office are vilified regardless of that decision.
This last council I suspect will have a makeover next year, as this one was a replacement of sorts from one that pulled from savings to balance the budget and beat their chests about the fact no tax increases...
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Re: Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Postby fluffy » Oct 21st, 2017, 7:30 am

southy wrote:You seem very close to what this council has done, could there be a reason for that?? Just asking.


Attacking the messenger and not the message? Not a very good start.

In a town so obviously divided as Penticton no matter what any council does there are going to be people crying for heads to roll. I think the biggest tell on just what sort of people are crying are those who put forth preconceived viewpoints that no matter what any particular council does that it's wrong.

Personally, although I have no serious complaints with current council, I will wait until I see who the alternatives are, and what they see as the important issues are before I decide where to cast my vote. The most important thing in a democracy is a well-informed electorate. Those who have their minds made up before the relevant information is available are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
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Re: Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Postby southy » Oct 21st, 2017, 9:16 am

Attacking the messenger not the message? I think not Fluffy! Was a simple question, unfortunate it triggered a judgement on your part :) just sayin'!

I think the general population fully understand the issues ongoing at city hall, there are no preconceived viewpoints, simply taxpayers reacting to what has transpired over the past three years. The upcoming election will present alternatives and in my view strong alternatives to what we have now. I also believe you will see important issues that haven't been or are not being dealt with brought forward in a manner that represents the best interest of the taxpayer. The only thing I have my mind made up about is the past and present performance of this mayor and council and that Fluffy in a democratic society is MY right!! I also see my decision as part of the solution!!
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Re: Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Postby fluffy » Oct 21st, 2017, 1:05 pm

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. I see and hear many, not only on this venue but on many facets of social media, who are largely reactionary in nature, and prejudiced against this council, and one thing they do have in common is that they have little to offer by way of proactive ideas. It always starts as a negative response to something council has said or done and generally takes the form of an emotional response rather than anything reasoned. It seems to have become the way of the political world these days as politicians and self-proclaimed "activists" alike know full well that an angry voter is not a thinking voter, and that promoting anger can provoke a change in government without having to go the route of actually studying the issues and possible solutions.
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Re: Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Postby XT225 » Oct 21st, 2017, 1:54 pm

fluffy wrote:I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. I see and hear many, not only on this venue but on many facets of social media, who are largely reactionary in nature, and prejudiced against this council, and one thing they do have in common is that they have little to offer by way of proactive ideas. It always starts as a negative response to something council has said or done and generally takes the form of an emotional response rather than anything reasoned. It seems to have become the way of the political world these days as politicians and self-proclaimed "activists" alike know full well that an angry voter is not a thinking voter, and that promoting anger can provoke a change in government without having to go the route of actually studying the issues and possible solutions.


The most proactive thing that anyone can do is to help vote these &^%$#@s out of office at the next Election. Sad that we have to wait another full year to do that. Perhaps it might just sink into to some of them in the near future that they better get their "spending like drunken sailors" habits under control and soon, if they have any chance of staying in office. Its not too late to do the right thing. ie: Beautification projects like the 200 block mess have done little if anything to boost downtown visits; in fact a lot of people that I've talked to now avoid the area due to increased congestion and lack of parking. (and these guys want to keep going that route up into the 300 block and beyond)? They need to look at the condition of the rest of the main streets and what is underneath them, first.

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Re: Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Postby twobits » Oct 22nd, 2017, 6:18 pm

Just get rid of Jak, Picton, and Sentes. The rest would be ok with a Mayor that had some qualifications for the big chair.
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Re: Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Postby Darkre » Oct 23rd, 2017, 10:04 am

southy wrote:Darke, thanks for your opinion. I didn't start this thread to get into a peeing match over who did what and why. You seem very close to what this council has done, could there be a reason for that?? Just asking. Your last paragraph pretty well sums it up. Yes, people were/are complaining about this mayor and council and probably with good reason. And Darke I suspect you know the reasons as well. I leave it at that knowing full well that in a years time will have a major change in the mayors chair and council.

I've never met a single member of council. Why am I so informed then? I actually take the time to do some research before jumping to conclusions.

I honestly don't know why people are so upset with this council. If you take the time to investigate peoples complaints many are unfounded and misinformed. So yes Southy I would appreciate it if you could convey some of your complaints about this council here so that I can research it and see for myself.

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Re: Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Postby Darkre » Oct 23rd, 2017, 10:14 am

XT225 wrote:
fluffy wrote:I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. I see and hear many, not only on this venue but on many facets of social media, who are largely reactionary in nature, and prejudiced against this council, and one thing they do have in common is that they have little to offer by way of proactive ideas. It always starts as a negative response to something council has said or done and generally takes the form of an emotional response rather than anything reasoned. It seems to have become the way of the political world these days as politicians and self-proclaimed "activists" alike know full well that an angry voter is not a thinking voter, and that promoting anger can provoke a change in government without having to go the route of actually studying the issues and possible solutions.


The most proactive thing that anyone can do is to help vote these &^%$#@s out of office at the next Election. Sad that we have to wait another full year to do that. Perhaps it might just sink into to some of them in the near future that they better get their "spending like drunken sailors" habits under control and soon, if they have any chance of staying in office. Its not too late to do the right thing. ie: Beautification projects like the 200 block mess have done little if anything to boost downtown visits; in fact a lot of people that I've talked to now avoid the area due to increased congestion and lack of parking. (and these guys want to keep going that route up into the 300 block and beyond)? They need to look at the condition of the rest of the main streets and what is underneath them, first.

Hey XT, you do realize that the downtown beautification project was conceived while Dan Ashton was still mayor right? In fact the budget for the project was approved in 2014 months before this council was even elected. It was actually this council that rolled back some of the extravagant extras that were included in the original plans (like the light canopy).

True they are looking to expand the project further down Main street but for these projects you can't just look at the total overall cost. Major infrastructure upgrades were required in those areas to accommodate growth plus the infrastructure needed to be replaced anyways. The city was faced with the cost of replacing the infrastructure plus fixing the damage caused by the replacement anyways. The total project may have cost $2.2 million but I heard at the time that it only cost an additional $500k to do the beautification portion. I could be incorrect but even if it cost $1 million that is a little more reasonable for the work accomplished.

Besides, if these projects weren't completed we wouldn't see the 2 new condo complexes planned for downtown as the needed infrastructure wouldn't have been in place. It will take a while but those projects will pay for the beautification portion through increased taxation going forward.
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Re: Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Postby southy » Oct 23rd, 2017, 10:29 am

Darkre wrote:
southy wrote:Darke, thanks for your opinion. I didn't start this thread to get into a peeing match over who did what and why. You seem very close to what this council has done, could there be a reason for that?? Just asking. Your last paragraph pretty well sums it up. Yes, people were/are complaining about this mayor and council and probably with good reason. And Darke I suspect you know the reasons as well. I leave it at that knowing full well that in a years time will have a major change in the mayors chair and council.

I've never met a single member of council. Why am I so informed then? I actually take the time to do some research before jumping to conclusions.

I honestly don't know why people are so upset with this council. If you take the time to investigate peoples complaints many are unfounded and misinformed. So yes Southy I would appreciate it if you could convey some of your complaints about this council here so that I can research it and see for myself.


Come on Darke, you know exactly what we are talking about. I believe, I and countless others on this forum and in print have conveyed their complaints about this mayor and council quite well. So I would suggest you continue with your research project. The answers are out there.

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Re: Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Postby Darkre » Oct 23rd, 2017, 11:30 am

I really don't Southy. Most every complaint about this council is misinformed. If you have other complaints or would like to elaborate on one of the items below please do.

Skaha
- Previous council sent out the RFP with waterslides as a suggested use
- Previous council selected Trio's bid
- Previous council signs agreement with Trio including an option to use lands as a waterslide
- Previous council signs confidentiality agreement with Trio
- Current council contractually obligated to sign final agreement with Trio
- Current council agrees to terminate the contract with Trio at great expense due to opposition to the project

Commercial Enterprises in Parks
- These need to be allowed for otherwise the concession stands, resturants, marina and Loco Landing would technically not be allowed and future improvements to those sites would not be able to happen
- Would a converted concession to restaurant such as The Patio at Okanagan Beach not be nice to have at Skaha? Not possible if you don't allow commercial in parks.

Downtown
- Previous council decides to beautify downtown to coincide with infrastructure upgrades
- Previous council approves the design and budget for downtown beautification project
- Current council removes frivolous spending in the budget when a grant is not approved
- Current council wants to continue with the project on other blocks as the upgrades have brought new developments to the downtown. New developments that will eventually pay for these improvements through increased tax revenue.

Infrastructure Deficit
- Caused by previous councils inaction, 0% tax hikes and a previous mayors desire to become a career politician

Casino
- The casino did not receive revenue from the Lakeside Resort from restaurants and bars at the facility and wanted more control
- The Lakeside benefited greatly from the Development Assistance Compensation fund that the casino was obligated to spend on site. Parkade and Merganser restaurant building plus renos of the rooms and maybe the moorage.
- The casino seriously considered moving to native land which would have meant the city would no longer receive royalties
- Current council finds a home for the casino on city owned land, Keeping the casino and it's royalties within city limits and potentially opening up another revenue stream with the DAC
- Lack of parking at the SOEC but $2 million in annual revenue saved and possible $4 million in DAC Funds now available to the city. Huge savings on your taxes as a result

Lack of Communication
- The city followed all required provincial regulations. Regulations that the UBCM have been trying to get changed for years
- The information was available. People just didn't look.
- The city hired a communications expert to help engage with the public as a response

I see a council that is learning, getting better and that is attempting to listen and engage the public. They've made mistakes but all councils do. Please Southy, elaborate on your complaints. I will share some of mine.

I'm disappointed in Jakubeit and council for a couple reasons.
1) He should have come out in the very beginning and said that it was the previous council, of which he was a member, that entered in to the agreement with Trio and to lay blame accordingly.
2) They should have gone to court to find out is a 30 year lease of a park counts as disposition. In my opinion a lease is a lease is a lease. Doesn't matter if it's 1 year or 99 years you don't own the land you are leasing but it sure would have been nice to have a definitive answer one way or other.
3) Opportunities to engage the city with better communications were missed, especially when the city had everyone's attention with the Skaha issue. That was a perfect time to institute email and social media communication channels in the city. Especially since they ignored my suggestion at the time to institute an email list that the public could register for to receive information and updates from the city.

Come on Southy, quit trying to deflect and put some effort in your posts. Tell us of some of your complaints so that we can judge for ourselves. I'm sure there are some other things that I and others haven't considered as to why this council deserves to be kicked to the corner. Tell us!

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Re: Yippee Skippy, Yes, Yes, Yes, can hardly wait!

Postby twobits » Oct 23rd, 2017, 6:33 pm

Oh lord, if you can't figure that out from the previous 3 years, then no explanation is possible. We have endured three years of amateur hour with the exception of a cpl of Councillors. The City is big business....100 million dollar budget.....and some of these clowns can't even run a small business. Is that what you want in charge of decision making?
Get a grip. Personally, I expect a higher degree of education or experience and track record to run a budget of that size. And I certainly do not want a Chairman of the Board that is on the verge of bankruptcy of a small retail store at the helm of a 100 million dollar budget.
Defend that reality?
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