Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Re: Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Postby JagXKR » Dec 5th, 2017, 11:40 am

twobits wrote:
And it "seems" to me that City Council itself, with it's sketchy approval process, chose to legitimize the business activity itself by granting business licenses for a few for a clearly illegal activity. You now want to ask the "hard" questions to Vaz when he is just a businessman leasing space. Jak has made his intentions clear that he is running for re election. Should your "hard" questions not be directed at the incumbent that legitimized the sale of an illegal product by granting business licenses to do so or to an owner of property who rents a premise to someone that could apply for and receive a business license as the City has set parameters to qualify for?
It seems clear to me that you have no concept of commercial law and leases. It is not the responsibility of the lessor to determine if the business activity of the lessee can obtain a business license for their activity. That is the jurisdiction of the City. And since they have provided licenses for the same activity.....why would Vaz not rent a vacant spot to someone wishing to get a license that the City has clearly by precedence, already granted?


I will ask Jak about that for sure. Never said I would not ask the hard questions to him or any on council. But to say that Vas is free and clear? Just a business man doing business? If you want to run for public office then it is incumbent of you to come to the table with clean hands. His choice as a business man does not show to me that he has the best interests of the city in mind, just his wallet. Knowingly renting to a business doing illegal activities is condoning it. Any smart businessman would have the lease stipulate that it can be cancelled if illegal activities are occurring. Basic lease 101. Duh. Not knowing about commercial law and leases give me a break. What kind of idiot would rent to someone without basic rules in the lease? Or maybe it's that he was forced to rent to them. Must have been horrible to hold a belief and have a business force you to lease space to them all the while you are 100 percent against what the business is selling. Takes a man with strong character to stand for what they believe is right for the city instead of turning a blind eye and using the "I'm just a businessman" line. Not mayoral at all.

The way that city hall handled the illegal cannabis shops was poor at best. And for that I hold all of those involved in the 100 block accountable. And that will be one of the many many things that helps me decide whom to cast my so valuable votes for in 2018. As will mental capability, education etc. Also do they have the best interests for the city and how can they quantify that statement.

Change for the sake of change is not my mantra and if no "better" candidates come forth then it will make my decision much harder. Right now I have questions and will need answers once there are real actual candidates running. I expect heated debate especially this time due to decisions council made that had so much controversy.
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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Re: Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Postby twobits » Dec 5th, 2017, 8:40 pm

It's all moot anyway isn't it? By the time the next civic elections happen, weed will be a legal product in Canada. And judging by virtually every poll taken, the vast majority of the population, seniors included....believe it is the right thing to do.
So go ahead, and ask the hard questions of Vaz, if he even runs again. In the end, if you plan to to what you say you will do, you will just end up looking like a "reefer madness" poster person that everyone just yawns over as a dinosaur. And since Jak has announced his tentative intention to run for Mayor again, and been party to the granting of licenses for the sale of weed, I would expect he would also be subject to your same "hard questions".
So pick your poison. Slam the guy that just rented a space to a guy that wanted to sell weed and left it up to him to get the appropriate license the City WAS GRANTING, or slam the guy that was party to and in favour of granting business licenses to rented spaces that did sell weed.
Your argument is a redundant circle ( circular gerk} of looking for a bad guy and blame with your obvious disdain of Vaz. I also warned in numerous posts here that the City's policy of granting licensing was a huge mistake given the current illegal status of weed. All they did by doing so is confuse what anybody could do on the retail level with the product. And to try to blame a property owner for the rules the City and Mayor created themselves is beyond the ludicrous.
Not liking Vaz is OK. I have no respect for Jak. Freedom of views is what it is. But I also have no respect for fabrication of issues that do not exist.
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Re: Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Postby Darkre » Dec 7th, 2017, 1:14 pm

Last edited by ferri on Dec 7th, 2017, 2:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Do not cross post please. Thank you.
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Re: Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Postby Darkre » Dec 7th, 2017, 2:37 pm

twobits wrote:The biggest problem I have is the current Mayor and Council trying to justify 3 plus percentage rate increases in tax rates on past Council's austerity. Those austerity Council's were just trying to correct the out of control spending created by the Kimberly and Perry tenures. And now we have to pay the piper for years of 0% tax increases. Bullchit. The problem was created by union oriented Mayors that so bloated the payroll and expenses that we had to lease the building across the street from City Hall to house employees. Pearce and Ashton tried to reign things into reality but then came bankrupt Jak as the leader.
The proof is right here.......read the numbers and weep as to what Penticton property homeowners pay in taxes per 100k in assesses value.

Using taxes paid per 100,000 in assessed value for the Okanagan is as follows: Kelowna, $364; Lake Country, $315; Oliver, $164; Osoyoos, $231; Peachland, $340; [b]Penticton, $433; Summerland, $331; Vernon, $378.
[/b]
Now please tell me how anyone can justify the spending and taxation policy of our civic leaders when we have the highest taxation rate over any community, from the border town of Osyoos with 6k population, right thru to Vernon by a huge dollar number.
We might not actually have an infratructure deficit if we didn't have drunken sailors spending someone else's money assuming they could just get more by blaming the admin before them.

Apparently you can't copy and paste the same response to 2 different threads. Hopefully this will be sufficiently different to avoid being deleted as I think the information is relevant to both threads. Please see the link in my previous post that ferri added to see my complete response in the other thread.

Simply put, Penticton has a higher Residential property tax rate because it has a lower Business tax rate. The city has chosen to put the tax burden on the residents of Penticton instead of the businesses in order to promote a business friendly image. Penticton has not generated additional revenue by doing this, it was a conscious strategy made to encourage business growth in the city. You can not only compare Residential taxes when discussing property taxes, you must consider the entire picture.

Residential and Business tax rates of the major cities in the Okanagan are below. (Unfortunately due to the limitations of this forums this is the easiest to read format available for this information so it is identical to the other thread):

Residential
Kelowna 3.6366
Vernon 3.7822
West Kel. 3.5578
Penticton 4.3323

Major Industry
Kelowna 21.0991
Vernon 14.2828
West Kel. 10.6735
Penticton. 6.845

Light Industry
Kelowna 8.3521
Vernon 14.2828
West Kel. 7.5782
Penticton. 6.845

Business
Kelowna 8.3521
Vernon 10.3213
West Kel. 8.2898
Penticton. 6.845

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Re: Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Postby twobits » Dec 7th, 2017, 7:44 pm

Darkre wrote:Simply put, Penticton has a higher Residential property tax rate because it has a lower Business tax rate. The city has chosen to put the tax burden on the residents of Penticton instead of the businesses in order to promote a business friendly image. Penticton has not generated additional revenue by doing this, it was a conscious strategy made to encourage business growth in the city. You can not only compare Residential taxes when discussing property taxes, you must consider the entire picture.

Residential and Business tax rates of the major cities in the Okanagan are below. (Unfortunately due to the limitations of this forums this is the easiest to read format available for this information so it is identical to the other thread):

Residential
Kelowna 3.6366
Vernon 3.7822
West Kel. 3.5578
Penticton 4.3323

Major Industry
Kelowna 21.0991
Vernon 14.2828
West Kel. 10.6735
Penticton. 6.845

Light Industry
Kelowna 8.3521
Vernon 14.2828
West Kel. 7.5782
Penticton. 6.845

Business
Kelowna 8.3521
Vernon 10.3213
West Kel. 8.2898
Penticton. 6.845


That's the thing about stats, they can be spun a number of different ways. But in case you haven't noticed, business, light industry, and what two?? heavy industries in Penticton have not flourished despite lower mill rates. What does that say to you about competitive advantage here? If you really care to drill down for an answer, why do you also not include in your analysis the available labour market here and the cost of land. Bottom line is it is more expensive to do business here.
And while you point to the mill rate discrepancies between business and residential while ignoring the pathetic segment of the local economy they comprise compared to the centers you chose to highlight, there will be even more people screaming at the City to attract business and industry for jobs! And with attractive mill rates for business......why is that not happening? And how is increasing rates to those job creators going to improve over the current pathetic if you want to increase their rates even further. Stupid logic.
So instead we tax the F out of the largest segment of tax suppliers to City revenue, residential homeowners, and spend like drunk sailors to build Marina's, beach walkways, and fancy bricks and bollards while you all ignore that we don't have a healthy business, light industrial, or heavy industry to rape for your goodies or required infrastructure list.
Your logic, combined with the fiscal logic and spending habits of the City will very soon have residential mill rates that approach the business mill rates in all the communities you pulled stats from.
Name us here on Castanet, three businesses in Penticton that are not Walmarts or Crapy Tire et al, that are making so much money that they can afford to pay the mill rates that Kelowna can extract. Be careful in your naming unless you are sure.
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Re: Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Postby Darkre » Dec 8th, 2017, 1:39 am

twobits wrote:That's the thing about stats, they can be spun a number of different ways. But in case you haven't noticed, business, light industry, and what two?? heavy industries in Penticton have not flourished despite lower mill rates. What does that say to you about competitive advantage here? If you really care to drill down for an answer, why do you also not include in your analysis the available labour market here and the cost of land. Bottom line is it is more expensive to do business here.
And while you point to the mill rate discrepancies between business and residential while ignoring the pathetic segment of the local economy they comprise compared to the centers you chose to highlight, there will be even more people screaming at the City to attract business and industry for jobs! And with attractive mill rates for business......why is that not happening? And how is increasing rates to those job creators going to improve over the current pathetic if you want to increase their rates even further. Stupid logic.
So instead we tax the F out of the largest segment of tax suppliers to City revenue, residential homeowners, and spend like drunk sailors to build Marina's, beach walkways, and fancy bricks and bollards while you all ignore that we don't have a healthy business, light industrial, or heavy industry to rape for your goodies or required infrastructure list.
Your logic, combined with the fiscal logic and spending habits of the City will very soon have residential mill rates that approach the business mill rates in all the communities you pulled stats from.
Name us here on Castanet, three businesses in Penticton that are not Walmarts or Crapy Tire et al, that are making so much money that they can afford to pay the mill rates that Kelowna can extract. Be careful in your naming unless you are sure.

Ah twobits, you are hilarious. When presented with facts that don’t fit the narrative you are trying to spin you resort to these petty personal attacks and avoid the information presented completely. There is no spin on the numbers I presented, those were the 2017 tax rates for the municipalities listed. You were the one complaining about the tax rate in Penticton using misleading and incomplete data. I simply presented the complete picture. Yes, the residential tax rate is higher in Penticton but that is due to the business tax rate being significantly lower than the rest of the cities in the region.

What’s even funnier is when your own blathering only reinforces the argument that I made; lower business property tax rates do not encourage investment. As you stated above, Penticton has proven this. The reason for this is simple, there simply isn’t enough of a savings presented to businesses by these lower rates to justify a move.

Using the 2017 rates for Penticton of 4.3323 for residential, 6.845 for Business and for simplicities sake a $1 million business property, let’s look at the basic municipal property taxes.
At the 2017 rate this business would have paid $6845 in taxes.
Had the multiplier been 2, instead of 1.58 or whatever it was, that same business would have paid $8664.30 for a grand total savings of $1819.30. Oh yeah, that $1819.30 is tax deductible.

Had Penticton simply charged the same rate as Kelowna (8.3521) the difference would have been a tax deductible $1507.10. What business person would possibly consider moving for a savings of $1500 a year, especially when you factor in the costs of the move in the first place?

I don’t have a problem with city shifting the tax burden to home owners, the 4.3323 residential or the 6.845 business rates in Penticton. If City Hall believes that a lower tax rate will attract more business to town, despite the evidence against this, then so be it. I know this will be controversial but with the infrastructure deficit the city is facing I wouldn’t be opposed to the city maintaining the residential rate while increasing the business rate to match Kelowna’s 8.3521, with the caveat that the increased revenue from the business taxes will be spent on the infrastructure improvements that are most significant to local businesses. These items need to be fixed or upgraded anyways, by doing it now it’s possible that some of these upgrades could attract new business to town, at least better than low property tax rates do.
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Re: Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Postby fluffy » Dec 8th, 2017, 6:02 am

The lower business rate as an attempt to attract business has met limited success. Limited by obstacles such as a weak global economy and high US exchange rates. Consider as well our geographical limitations, off the beaten track provincially as well as regionally and limited land availability. The cry for local jobs is decades old in Penticton, it's not that we're a more expensive place to do business, it's more a matter of location. Kelowna is a horrendously expensive place to do business, but they're doing okay due to the large local market and central location to access regional markets. I don't see any reason to lay any blame at all at current council's feet for failure to attract new businesses to town, this is a problem that every council has wrestled with the same results.
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Re: Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Postby seewood » Dec 8th, 2017, 10:11 am

fluffy wrote:The lower business rate as an attempt to attract business has met limited success. Limited by obstacles such as a weak global economy and high US exchange rates. Consider as well our geographical limitations, off the beaten track provincially as well as regionally and limited land availability.


Exactly. Other than a week global economy, all those points are spot on.

Where is a new business going to set up shop? The res has the only land available for anything substantial and the taxes paid will go to the PIB.
If a company considers a move to Penticton, there would have to be job opportunities for one's partner as well. That was an issue the new prison had in try to get experienced guards to transfer to the area.
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Re: Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Postby twobits » Dec 9th, 2017, 6:26 pm

fluffy wrote:The lower business rate as an attempt to attract business has met limited success. Limited by obstacles such as a weak global economy and high US exchange rates. Consider as well our geographical limitations, off the beaten track provincially as well as regionally and limited land availability. The cry for local jobs is decades old in Penticton, it's not that we're a more expensive place to do business, it's more a matter of location. Kelowna is a horrendously expensive place to do business, but they're doing okay due to the large local market and central location to access regional markets. I don't see any reason to lay any blame at all at current council's feet for failure to attract new businesses to town, this is a problem that every council has wrestled with the same results.


Exactly. And if our competitive advantage is challenged for the very accurate reasons you state, is it not counter intuitive to further disadvantage our business and industry by loading an even higher tax rate on them. To suggest as Darke does, that because Kelowna charges a higher rate, we should also be able to extract the same blood as Kelowna completely ignores the realities of business and industry here.
And as bad as this current Council is, I do not blame them at all for failing to attract new business. It is a pressure that no previous Council has been able to significantly solve either. The move to lowering tax rates was in recognition of their struggle and a long term vision to stop the bleeding and losses. What they can be blamed for however is cutting that off before it could bear any fruit in their insatiable search for money to spend on pet projects and additional and apparently redundant and duplicate staff downtown. The extra "communications" person alone eats up the proposed increase to the business tax rate.
And remember, when we are all forced to go to Kelowna to shop, there will be precious little business left to rape here at high mil rates in keeping up with the "Jones", and that will only mean only higher tax mil rates on homeowners.
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Re: Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Postby XT225 » May 31st, 2018, 1:27 pm

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Re: Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Postby southy » May 31st, 2018, 2:43 pm

XT225 wrote:Oh Goodie! (nottttttt).

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#227684


:laugh: OMG - let the campaigning begin!! I wonder who might be next ... she wouldn't would she????
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Re: Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Postby CTF » May 31st, 2018, 3:11 pm

XT225 wrote:Oh Goodie! (nottttttt).

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#227684


Wow. Am I the only one floored by this news?
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Re: Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Postby southy » May 31st, 2018, 3:45 pm

If that floors ya ... just wait there could be a couple more , well less interesting names appearing soon. Really now, isn't this the most wonderful time of the year? Election time! :130:

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Re: Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Postby madmudder » May 31st, 2018, 5:37 pm

Yes bring it on. Hopefully they more than one polling station this time around.
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Re: Mayor Jak to seek re-election

Postby dreamon » May 31st, 2018, 6:30 pm

Based on his recent posturing and self promotion, don't be surprised if Jason Cox throws is his hat in the ring.
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