Neighbours kill rehab centre

Re: Neighbours kill rehab centre

Postby XT225 » Feb 22nd, 2018, 8:36 pm

the truth wrote:hiding stuff will never help them


Agreed. Funny how folks get all bent out of shape when a large home goes up; appears to have "extended families" living there (when supposed to be single family residences), yet something like this that can house up to 6 people, not related is allowed? Kinda makes a mockery of the single family residential rules, doesn't it?
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Re: Neighbours kill rehab centre

Postby fluffy » Feb 22nd, 2018, 9:05 pm

twobits wrote:Question for you fluff. Is there a rehab house within 200 ft of where you reside? I know someone that has one four houses down and across the street in a very well populated and mid to higher end neighbourhood. In other words, not a drug neighborhood. Do you think the one or two needles they find in the area every week on the street and sidewalks are from their neighbours or the rehab house? BTW, there were never any needles prior to the rehab home and they have lived there for 20 plus yrs. So go ahead and preach levels of social maturity. Check back here when one of these social experiments moves into the house next to yours.


Got you there pal. One moved in right next door. Less than twenty feet between our two buildings. My former neighbour sold to an outfit in the business. I have yet to find a needle. The cops show up once in a blue moon, and cigarette butts occasionally go missing from the ashtray in our outdoor smoking room but who's counting?

My personal experience with addiction, alcoholic 25 yrs sober and active in recovery programs, gives me a different outlook than the usual nimby crowd. I can see the human side of the equation and that gives me a degree of tolerance for people working to make better their lot in life. Truthfully, I'd rather have these neighbours than a lot of the two-faced, judgemental gossips that have graced my neighbourhood in the past. I wouldn't call my neighbourhood high end by any means, but it's not low rent either. I am between the mall and the plaza, mixed ages, quiet area. I most certainly would not class these people as bad neighbours. I think that the idea that crime and open drug use is a forgone conclusion with this type of residential care is based in fear and ignorance. I wouldn't say it never happens, but to assume it is inevitable is a mistake, and I bet you lunch that it's nowhere near the scale that some want us to believe. For that reason alone I can see the wisdom in keeping people without relevant knowledge and experience out of the loop until after the fact.
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Re: Neighbours kill rehab centre

Postby twobits » Feb 24th, 2018, 7:23 pm

fluffy wrote:My personal experience with addiction, alcoholic 25 yrs sober and active in recovery programs, gives me a different outlook than the usual nimby crowd. I can see the human side of the equation and that gives me a degree of tolerance for people working to make better their lot in life.


Glad you have been able to control your addiction. Honestly.
But equally as honest is an unappreciation of your supposition that unless you have been an addict, one cannot understand. That is a failed self serving argument with no merritt. Given the skinny resources available, and evidence to the contrary, calling people that are not and have not been addicts Nimbies for not wanting rehab centers or even halfway houses in populated neighbourhoods with children borders on a pompous disregard for those neighbours.
If there were some required public consultation for location of rehab centers, which there is apparently not, and there was no opposition, fill yer boots and open up.
We consult the neighbors when there is a rezoning for a different use of property from the zoned single family designation. That is even true for a seniors assisted living home. Every neighbour can speak for or against. Yet for a drug rehab home, it somehow can bypass all of the Civic rules of property use and no neighbourhood comment???
And you are better positioned to understand this because of being a recovered addict? Sorry, can't agree with that qualification.
Am also quite surprised at how accepting you are of people visiting your property to take cig butts from your outdoor smoking area. My alarm bells would be ringing not for the pilfered butts, but the fact that they were in my yard and what other valuables I have to make sure are secured. Do you not ask yourself how they found your ashtray and what they were doing in your private space to find it??? And if you had kids and they happened upon these people in your private space?
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Re: Neighbours kill rehab centre

Postby Jflem1983 » Feb 24th, 2018, 8:03 pm

Fluffy . Thank you for sharing your story. Good on u brother. Stay sober .
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"
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Re: Neighbours kill rehab centre

Postby fluffy » Feb 24th, 2018, 8:08 pm

Hey, you’re the one saying these places bring death and destruction. I’m saying that is not the case.

What I am saying is that as an addict in recovery I am well acquainted with the stigma that addiction carries, and how people will look down their noses at anything to do with it. How many houses on any block in town conceal practicing addicts of any flavour? Shall we put their right to live among us on trial as well?
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Re: Neighbours kill rehab centre

Postby twobits » Feb 24th, 2018, 9:11 pm

fluffy wrote:Hey, you’re the one saying these places bring death and destruction. I’m saying that is not the case.

What I am saying is that as an addict in recovery I am well acquainted with the stigma that addiction carries, and how people will look down their noses at anything to do with it. How many houses on any block in town conceal practicing addicts of any flavour? Shall we put their right to live among us on trial as well?


Nope. Don't want to evaluate or judge any individual with a substance abuse issue. Just think that a neighbourhood should have some say in the location.
I would also like a response from you as to why you are so comfortable with your rehab neighbours in your yard taking butts out of your deck ashtray and if you think everyone should be that comfortable?
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Re: Neighbours kill rehab centre

Postby fluffy » Feb 25th, 2018, 5:21 am

twobits wrote:Nope. Don't want to evaluate or judge any individual with a substance abuse issue. Just think that a neighbourhood should have some say in the location.


Don't want to judge? But that's exactly what your doing, and with the same result that can be expected from a lot of people. "I don't want them in my neighbourhood." Since when do any of us get the right to pre screen our neighbours?

I would also like a response from you as to why you are so comfortable with your rehab neighbours in your yard taking butts out of your deck ashtray and if you think everyone should be that comfortable?


You'd have to see the actual geography to understand, both houses have side entrances that face each other with the smoke pit in between under a tree. The ashtray is clearly visible on a table there. I don't smoke but my roommate does and it was he that noticed the butts going missing. He asked one of the residents about it and from what I understand it stopped. I think that particular resident has since moved on. Was a boundary crossed? Yes, of course, but let's keep it in context here, it was a few cigarette butts. I'd class something like this in with the homeless guy checking my garbage can for refundables when it's out for pick-up.

If something deserving of legal attention goes on I have the option to contact the authorities, but as yet none of us get to pass judgement based on what might happen in a group home or treatment facility, especially when those very same risks could exist in any house on the block.

Neighbours are not asked for input in these situations because history has shown us that repeatedly that too many of those neighbours cannot exercise that right responsibly and compassionately. An opinion driven by fear just doesn't make it.
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Re: Neighbours kill rehab centre

Postby fluffy » Feb 25th, 2018, 8:20 am

It’s worth noting that a major difference between residential recovery and treatment facilities and those homes housing untreated, practicing addicts, quite possibly in the very same neighbourhood, is that the former houses people trying to grow past their problems.

Now, if somebody wanted to claim the right to push the practicing addict out of their neighbourhood, how would that go over?

People in residential treatment homes are subject to the same laws as any of us. That has to be your avenue of complaint as it offers a level playing field and helps to keep prejudice out of the picture.
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Re: Neighbours kill rehab centre

Postby rustled » Feb 25th, 2018, 9:33 am

fluffy wrote:It’s worth noting that a major difference between residential recovery and treatment facilities and those homes housing untreated, practicing addicts, quite possibly in the very same neighbourhood, is that the former houses people trying to grow past their problems.

Now, if somebody wanted to claim the right to push the practicing addict out of their neighbourhood, how would that go over?

People in residential treatment homes are subject to the same laws as any of us. That has to be your avenue of complaint as it offers a level playing field and helps to keep prejudice out of the picture.

This is a really helpful perspective, fluffy. Thanks for sharing it.
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Re: Neighbours kill rehab centre

Postby twobits » Feb 25th, 2018, 8:52 pm

fluffy wrote:It’s worth noting that a major difference between residential recovery and treatment facilities and those homes housing untreated, practicing addicts, quite possibly in the very same neighbourhood, is that the former houses people trying to grow past their problems.

Now, if somebody wanted to claim the right to push the practicing addict out of their neighbourhood, how would that go over?

People in residential treatment homes are subject to the same laws as any of us. That has to be your avenue of complaint as it offers a level playing field and helps to keep prejudice out of the picture.


Really. So none of these people in residential facilities have not been mandated to attend by the courts or probation? And none of them are just putting in time just to fulfill the mandate while they continue to use?

Also disappointed that you sluff off trespass so easily when so many of the people at these facilities have records for property theft to support their habits. You are making it sound like the only occupiers of residential rehab facilities are white collar addicts that checked themselves into the home to clean up.
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Re: Neighbours kill rehab centre

Postby fluffy » Feb 26th, 2018, 4:24 am

I suppose if you could produce some credible statistics to support your claims I might reconsider my position, but until then I’m going to go with what I’ve seen with my own eyes. The place next to mine causes no more concern to me than would any other neighbour. P

Interesting point on whether residents in these programs are there by choice or not, that would have some bearing on just how engaged an individual is in his/her recovery. It’s my experience that until someone actually wants to get better the chances of recovery are slim to none. This is not new knowledge, and it's my understanding that the courts are aware that mandated attendance in recovery programs doesn't have very impressive success rates. I wonder if you are confusing simple group homes or halfway houses with actual treatment facilities? To me the term "treatment" implies some level of voluntary attendance. The waiting list to get into most of these programs is long enough that those running them are hesitant to indulge court-ordered attendance as ultimately chances are that it will be a waste of time and resources.

Addiction comes in many forms ands affects people in all walks of life, white collar, blue collar, or no collar at all. In the programs I’ve been involved in that part is irrelevant. At the end of the day all participants are just addicts and that is the focus, any perceived class distinctions are an undesired distraction best left at the door.
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Re: Neighbours kill rehab centre

Postby fluffy » Feb 26th, 2018, 6:27 am

twobits wrote:Also disappointed that you sluff off trespass so easily...


I’ve never been one of those “Get off of my lawn” types. If I look at the underlying motivation there is no malicious intent, just somebody hard up enough for a smoke that they’re willing to use someone else’s garbage to get a fix. In that light I find it hard to turn them down.
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Re: Neighbours kill rehab centre

Postby fluffy » Feb 26th, 2018, 8:34 am

AA played a huge part instilling what small sense of social responsibility I feel today as that particular program is all about extending a compassionate and understanding hand to those in need. Have I had my hand bitten doing that in the past? You bet. Will that stop me from doing so again? Not a chance.

I like to believe that people are basically good, it’s just that sometimes that goodness can get buried under life’s load, and all too often this is not the fault of the individual. Most of the time it’s another trip around a circle that can go back generations. A little genuine help and understanding can go a long way to letting someone break out of that circle.
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Re: Neighbours kill rehab centre

Postby Giants Head » Feb 26th, 2018, 12:49 pm

Fluffy......You have nearly 19000 posts on this site. Of all the ones that I have seen this last one must be in the top ten. Very good job of describing the issue.
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Re: Neighbours kill rehab centre

Postby twobits » Feb 26th, 2018, 9:17 pm

fluffy wrote:AA played a huge part instilling what small sense of social responsibility I feel today as that particular program is all about extending a compassionate and understanding hand to those in need. Have I had my hand bitten doing that in the past? You bet. Will that stop me from doing so again? Not a chance.

I like to believe that people are basically good, it’s just that sometimes that goodness can get buried under life’s load, and all too often this is not the fault of the individual. Most of the time it’s another trip around a circle that can go back generations. A little genuine help and understanding can go a long way to letting someone break out of that circle.


Fluff, I don't disagree with you at all really. I too believe that people are basically good for the most part, and sometimes life just shats on people by both circumstance and sometimes their own poor choices. It is not my lack of compassion for these people but rather a frustration of social advocacy that see's nothing wrong with putting "recovering needle" addicts into residential areas with minors next door and more importantly, close proximity to their established dealer network. I think we have enough of a land base that more rural areas would be more appropriate for recovery programs.
I won't comment any further on this thread because as I agree with you that the facilities are required, we are never going to agree as to where they should be located. A person I considered a very good friend of 20 yrs overdosed from opiates while in a residential facility. His dependence was a result of over prescription from a hip injury. Had he been in Willowbrook or Faulder, his dealer network would not have bothered meeting him as they would, at the corner of Main and Okanagan.
As a recovering alcoholic, can you not understand or appreciate that the worst place for you to be in would be next to a bar or close to somewhere where someone can easily bring you liquor?
As I said, I am checking out of this thread because I have some pretty strong opinions on the subject of location that have nothing to do with demeaning or stigmatizing those with addictions..
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