Castanet

dogspoiler wrote:It's not up to people to pick and choose which laws they will follow, think about that. Laws can be challenged and changed if they are deemed unfair. Ignoring them seldom works.
It's totally ridiculous that this has gone this far.
How would you enforce a Bylaw ?

Unfortunately, laws can't be challenged until they are put into play - that is how it works. Writing laws to target the impoverished is one of the worst forms of government oppression there can be. I know when I come to Penticton I never pay to park, get my parking ticket and never pay them - why would I?

You are right .... it is ridiculous that it has gone this far .......... and will go much, much farther. A good question to ask your mayor and council both now and for the civic election in October is just how much this debacle is costing and why they are/were he%# bent on trying to victimize an impoverished citizen. The only possible winner from all this (excepting the $ for the City's Victoria lawyer) is Mr. Braun.

The question of how would you enforce a bylaw is still not answered.
But since you admit to not following the law I could not believe anything you say.
Have a nice day.

dogspoiler wrote:The question of how would you enforce a bylaw is still not answered.

Start by crafting them properly in full compliance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. An example of this is that every City will tell you that a bylaw officer can come into your house at will to check for compliance to any particular bylaws .... most people believe them and just let them in. The real answer is that they must have a warrant issued by a judge before they are allowed in. Try going to a judge with a request for a warrant because they might suspect a bylaw is being broken. A mans home is supposed to be his castle and sanctuary from the prying eyes of government.

The only real need for municipal bylaws are for land use to assist in the orderly development of a municipality.

In a country setting there are no bylaws - you just follow the Federal and Provincial law, simple as that.

Now, don't get me going about surveillance cameras!

fz6adventure wrote:Start by crafting them properly in full compliance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. An example of this is that every City will tell you that a bylaw officer can come into your house at will to check for compliance to any particular bylaws .... most people believe them and just let them in. The real answer is that they must have a warrant issued by a judge before they are allowed in. Try going to a judge with a request for a warrant because they might suspect a bylaw is being broken. A mans home is supposed to be his castle and sanctuary from the prying eyes of government.

The only real need for municipal bylaws are for land use to assist in the orderly development of a municipality.

In a country setting there are no bylaws - you just follow the Federal and Provincial law, simple as that.

Now, don't get me going about surveillance cameras!

And people like you are why our society is going to chit in a handbasket. You are all about individual rights at the expense of the rest of society. Where are the rights of society as a whole entrenched? Ultra liberals make me wonder why I would ever want to fund any kind of social program when the people that funding is directed to just turn around and slap me with a legal bill as a taxpayer.

twobits wrote:And people like you are why our society is going to chit in a handbasket. You are all about individual rights at the expense of the rest of society. Where are the rights of society as a whole entrenched? Ultra liberals make me wonder why I would ever want to fund any kind of social program when the people that funding is directed to just turn around and slap me with a legal bill as a taxpayer.

Thank you for the compliment.

Here is the thing though ......... you don't get to choose where your taxes go in funding social programs - the government is looking after your contributions. If you really want to stop the waste that is merely a matter of the ego of some politician or bureaucrat in Penticton, let them know the stupidity of taking a man without a bank account to court over eating a bowl of soup while sitting on a sidewalk.

twobits wrote:You are all about individual rights at the expense of the rest of society. Where are the rights of society as a whole entrenched?

I'm somewhat frustrated with this situation too. If you're looking for a law that will protect you from this kind of abuse, you can find it right here.

Use it wisely my friend.

Drip_Torch wrote:I'm somewhat frustrated with this situation too. If you're looking for a law that will protect you from this kind of abuse, you can find it right here.

Use it wisely my friend.

I like to think I do use it wisely my friend. As I am sure you do too. Unfortunately the voter pool in general terms is rather lacking in the effort of being informed voters. It is the weakness of our democratic system. It is too bad as well.
Point in fact. I still know a number of people that vote only on party lines because that is who their parents voted for. Yet you ask them who the leader of that party is, or better yet, the name of the person they voted for representing that party.....and it's a 50/50 chance they will get both correct. What does that say about understanding any presented platform?

The city has spoken - here ya go: https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#217542

And if you want to see the actual specifics here is one more link from the city officials:
http://www.penticton.ca/assets/City~New ... cement.pdf

I now feel better knowing how tax dollars are being spent on this issue - unbelievable.

I am new to the city, and this just seems ridiculous. On both sides !!

Braun and his lawyer should be embarrassed at all this attention they are getting.
How many more tickets will be issued this summer before the court case ?

The "REactions" of the city will be determined by the "ACTions" of the accused.

The city did NOT act first, they reacted to a problem. Much like the RCMP/police do. IF there is no problem, the law will not REact.

Similarly, to the fire department, they only REact when they are called. How silly would it be for them to show-up and put out a fire before it happened? Somebody must be complaining before the law gets involved.

IMO, this is more about Varga getting name recognition for his own interests. Paul is just a convenient pawn in that quest.

I agree. It sure seems that Varga thinks Paul Braun is the second most important Paul in the story.

Kinda funny how all the "Paul the homeless" supporters have disappeared now that it is public knowledge that he is not homeless and yet continues his quest for the right to flaunt a City bylaw that applies to every citizen.
IMO, it's too bad that the City can't force this social justice pro bono attention seeking lawyer Varga to pay the bill for this litigation.
I don't agree with the City's use of a Victoria lawyer for this, but Varga should compensate taxpayers for the frivolity of it since his jump to defence has caused this to go to a four day trial.

The problem I have with this entire ordeal is why did City officials not take an alternative approach to Paul's sit-in? And perhaps and I say perhaps they tried, but something tells me senior staff, the mayor and whatever other councillors decided that using the heavy hand of the law would garner better results from Paul. I wonder who signed off on consulting and hiring this lawyer from Victoria? I wonder at what stage of negotiations with Paul that this occurred? Do we know for fact that lawyer Paul Varga took this case on by himself? Did he wake up one morning, pour himself a cup of java, read the Penticton Herald story about Paul's situation and say ..."gee, this doesn't seem right - I think I will help this man take on the group from the big white building on Main?" Or did Paul, or other individuals contact lawyer Paul Varga and ask what he might be able to do? We don't know these answers do we? We just want to point the finger at Paul Varga and say he is an attention seeking lawyer. Seems to be the case for some. Isn't it also interesting that the city has no problem hiring a Victoria lawyer and moving this issue to court at whatever expense? So to say Paul Varga should pay the bill really doesn't cut it. It goes both ways doesn't it!!

I think it is going to be very interesting to see how this all plays out in court. I hope afterwards that we will all have a better perspective on what really happened prior to, during and after this ends up in court and perhaps, just perhaps there might be a positive outcome to this mess the city of Penticton finds itself in .... again!

southy wrote: Do we know for fact that lawyer Paul Varga took this case on by himself? Did he wake up one morning, pour himself a cup of java, read the Penticton Herald story about Paul's situation and say ..."gee, this doesn't seem right - I think I will help this man take on the group from the big white building on Main?" Or did Paul, or other individuals contact lawyer Paul Varga and ask what he might be able to do? We don't know these answers do we? We just want to point the finger at Paul Varga and say he is an attention seeking lawyer.

Southy?? You disappoint here. It was reported in the media by Varga himself. He is an attention seeking social justice advocate. He's a news snip.......

"Varga is representing Braun pro bono. He said he was speaking with Braun moments after the city subpoenaed him and offered his services.

“Situations like this, where the city is attacking its most vulnerable citizens, I’ve got to step in,” Varga said."