Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Re: Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Postby Bunnyhop » Sep 7th, 2018, 10:03 pm

Who would have the authority to remove these buoys? Im thinking that if whoever that authority is isnt willing to remove them, they wont show up to investigate a complaint of them being removed.

The police wouldnt respond either, the buoys are illegally placed so theres no law against removing them to the beach.
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Re: Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Postby mattinkelowna » Sep 7th, 2018, 11:02 pm

Exactly, anyone picking up garbage (the buoys) out of Okanagan Lake is actually doing a good deed.

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Re: Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Postby milo » Sep 8th, 2018, 8:23 pm

Yes know the regulations. These are clearly not "DO NOT ENTER" bouys. I was fortunate to grow up with a grandfather who was a tugboat captain sailor father and I have my 200t licence. Is he being an A$$.... yes but if you are boating anywhere you need to know what bouys mean. They are all marked accordingly for a reason.
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Re: Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Postby totoramona » Sep 9th, 2018, 11:42 am

These buoys say "No Boats" and are intended to "mislead boaters" into thinking the area is private. This is contrary to the regulations.
These bouys do not indicate a current name and phone number of the owner. This is contrary to the regulations.
The Canadian Minister of Transport may remove bouys that do not comply. So to make that happen, anyone concerned about these unlawful bouys needs to call The Federal Minister of Transport to complain.

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Re: Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Postby totoramona » Sep 9th, 2018, 12:10 pm

Here is a link to the Transport Canada Guide to Private Buoys.
https://www.csrd.bc.ca/sites/default/files/dock-bouy/TCGuidetoPrivateBuoys.pdf

Bouys are specific in colour and shape according to their purpose for assisting mariners in the navigation of a vessel. So what is the purpose of these bouys? For swimming? Well they don't say that, as they should. For moorage? They don't say so. To restrict an area? In order to place any restrictive bouys, applications must be made at the local level and approved by Transport Canada themselves. No proper markings. These bouys do not comply at all and must be removed.

I would start with a citizens complaint to Transport Canada, but since it appears the offending property falls within RDOS jurisdiction, a person could probably request assistance from that local level of government in asking Transport Canada to assess and intervene.
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Re: Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Postby alanjh595 » Sep 9th, 2018, 12:40 pm

In who's opinion do these buoys not comply?

If in someone's opinion, they are non-conforming, they have the grounds to report them, and an investigation will follow. After the investigation has been completed, then the governing bodies will approach the owner of those buoys and order that they be removed or order that they become brought into legal requirements within a specified time limit.
In turn, that order can be challenged in court. AND so long as this matter has been challenged and subject to court approval, they will legally remain as they are today.

This matter could take 3+ years to be decided by a judge.
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Re: Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Postby totoramona » Sep 9th, 2018, 1:17 pm

alanjh595 wrote:In who's opinion do these buoys not comply?

If in someone's opinion, they are non-conforming, they have the grounds to report them, and an investigation will follow. After the investigation has been completed, then the governing bodies will approach the owner of those buoys and order that they be removed or order that they become brought into legal requirements within a specified time limit.
In turn, that order can be challenged in court. AND so long as this matter has been challenged and subject to court approval, they will legally remain as they are today.

This matter could take 3+ years to be decided by a judge.


No. Bouys can only be put in federal waters under a very narrow set of circumstances and it is the responsibility of the owner of the bouys to prove that they comply, not otherwise. Obviously, waterways can not be filled up with a bunch of non-compliment, obstuctive and confusing bouys, making water transportation unsafe, while investigations and lawsuits move through the courts! Waterways are federally owned. Transport Canada has every right to remove any private bouy as they see fit. A private citizen has zero right to place a bouy. It is a privilege, once a person has proven that they both have a justifiable reason to do so and are doing so within the regulations. Bouys are navigational tools, not toys.

The bouys do not comply in the most basic sense. They don't list the name of the owner. They say No Boats, which is restrictive, but don't show proper markings to be as such. Restrictive bouys have to pass through local approvals and then an application process with Transport Canada, through which they would undoubtedly be properly marked, so clearly, that is not the case here.

So, to your point, NO. There is no basis for any legal challenge here. This is strictly a case of an entitled lakefront property owner pretending he owns part of the lake, and attempting to restrict others from using it.

It needs to be brought to the attention of the proper authorities. The bouys will either be properly marked as swimming, or moorage or, if seen as an obstruction, removed. And hopefully there will be consequences.
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Re: Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Postby alanjh595 » Sep 9th, 2018, 3:11 pm

totoramona wrote:The bouys do not comply in the most basic sense. They don't list the name of the owner. They say No Boats, which is restrictive, but don't show proper markings to be as such. Restrictive bouys have to pass through local approvals and then an application process with Transport Canada, through which they would undoubtedly be properly marked, so clearly, that is not the case here.

So, to your point, NO. There is no basis for any legal challenge here. This is strictly a case of an entitled lakefront property owner pretending he owns part of the lake, and attempting to restrict others from using it.

It needs to be brought to the attention of the proper authorities. The bouys will either be properly marked as swimming, or moorage or, if seen as an obstruction, removed. And hopefully there will be consequences.


So, who has filed a complaint of non-compliance? Who is prepared to report and give testimony? Who is willing to swear a statement and sign on the dotted line?
Until that happens......lack of objection is implied consent. The Summer is almost over and the offending buoys will be removed......until next year.
At that point, it can be started all over again. Next year, they may have the owner's name on them.
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Re: Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Postby MAPearce » Sep 9th, 2018, 7:58 pm

In who's opinion do these buoys not comply?


The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT .... duh .

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Re: Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Postby totoramona » Sep 9th, 2018, 9:33 pm

alanjh595 wrote:So, who has filed a complaint of non-compliance? Who is prepared to report and give testimony? Who is willing to swear a statement and sign on the dotted line?
Until that happens......lack of objection is implied consent.


Give testimony? Swear a statement? Implied consent? What are you even talking about?
The only reason this property owner is getting away with this is that Transport Canada is UNAWARE of it. I am glad Castanet covered this story, as that area of the lake is not easily seen.
A call on Monday, or better yet, MANY calls on Monday should get the ball rolling. If the RDOS calls, removal will probably be fast tracked.
But it is up to members of the public to bring this matter to the attention of the authorities and safeguard public access.
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Re: Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Postby milo » Sep 9th, 2018, 10:00 pm

alanjh595 wrote:
So, who has filed a complaint of non-compliance? Who is prepared to report and give testimony? Who is willing to swear a statement and sign on the dotted line?
Until that happens......lack of objection is implied consent.

Did you file a complaint? They are bouys that can't keep boats out. To people who don't know when you see a bouy that says "no boats " they assume that is what it means. But if you know bouy markings it is not the case. Alanjh595 You are more than welcome to boat over and measure the distance they are from shore. Report back they may be required to have a nitetime beacon if there is a navigation hazard. I'll be disregarding them period.
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Re: Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Postby Poindexter » Sep 10th, 2018, 6:06 am

Where they do need a nighttime buoy is at Scruggins Reef, also known as propeller graveyard, but only because it's a rocky shallow spot a couple hundred yards from the shoreline. I don't agree with these private buoys but they are close enough to shore that if someone runs into them in the dark they deserve what they get.

Someone also mentioned a danger for jetskis/pwc's but they don't come with navigation lights and shouldn't be driven at night anyway.
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Re: Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Postby alanjh595 » Sep 10th, 2018, 8:10 am

Who says where the property line is? It could be in the water somewhere. Has anyone checked to see if a licence has been issued for the dock and/or boat lift if there is one?
They very well could have legal right to put up the buoys and designate it as a swimming area.
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Re: Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Postby Bsuds » Sep 10th, 2018, 8:20 am

alanjh595 wrote:Who says where the property line is? It could be in the water somewhere.


Now that statement made me chuckle. You should know like everyone else that the property line on any waterway is the high water line. So unless there is a flood which would put it under water, that would be impossible under normal circumstances.
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Re: Phooey On Buoys LOL Party At The Buoys!

Postby Bunnyhop » Sep 10th, 2018, 8:46 am

Does anyone have an email for who to file a complaint to? I looked but couldn’t find one.
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