Bike Valet !!

Bike Valet !!

Postby soupy » Oct 15th, 2018, 2:50 pm

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#239228

FANTASTIC.

I used this service a number of times this summer and loved it.
Hoping everyone else that used it left a decent donation.

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Re: Bike Valet !!

Postby twobits » Oct 15th, 2018, 6:55 pm

soupy wrote:https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-239228-21-.htm#239228

FANTASTIC.

I used this service a number of times this summer and loved it.
Hoping everyone else that used it left a decent donation.


I hope they all left a donation too. It was a service no different than a parking facility. My other hope is that cyclist's also pay for the portion of asphalt they use via licence fee's. How can one service.....parking, get fee.....yet use of dedicated roadway for legal and rights enshrined use be free of charge?
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Re: Bike Valet !!

Postby wanderingchef » Oct 15th, 2018, 9:37 pm

Twobits, you have got to be kidding. You think you pay ICBC for the right to use the roads? What license fees are you referring to? I am pretty sure its our taxes that go to that......

Your statement is so misinformed, ignorant and well.......wrong.
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Re: Bike Valet !!

Postby spooker » Oct 16th, 2018, 5:31 am

It was a good thing to have that option for market visitors ... wish the Kelowna market was more accessible to make this more viable too ... there are plenty of people who bike but being at the corner of Busy St and Busier St is not something that encourages cycling with traffic for many ...

twobits wrote:I hope they all left a donation too. It was a service no different than a parking facility. My other hope is that cyclist's also pay for the portion of asphalt they use via licence fee's. How can one service.....parking, get fee.....yet use of dedicated roadway for legal and rights enshrined use be free of charge?


You haven't read the previous threads with people claiming that only people in cars pay for the roads? this idea has been debunked over and over again ...

Further reading: https://businessgazette.ca/who-pays-for-roads/
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Re: Bike Valet !!

Postby soupy » Oct 16th, 2018, 7:09 am

spooker wrote:It was a good thing to have that option for market visitors ... wish the Kelowna market was more accessible to make this more viable too ... there are plenty of people who bike but being at the corner of Busy St and Busier St is not something that encourages cycling with traffic for many ...

twobits wrote:I hope they all left a donation too. It was a service no different than a parking facility. My other hope is that cyclist's also pay for the portion of asphalt they use via licence fee's. How can one service.....parking, get fee.....yet use of dedicated roadway for legal and rights enshrined use be free of charge?


You haven't read the previous threads with people claiming that only people in cars pay for the roads? this idea has been debunked over and over again ...

Further reading: https://businessgazette.ca/who-pays-for-roads/


PFFFT, Penticton market is much better than Kelowna's
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Re: Bike Valet !!

Postby spooker » Oct 16th, 2018, 9:12 am

soupy wrote:
PFFFT, Penticton market is much better than Kelowna's


To that I have no argument ... love the format that Penticton has ... Kelowna just jams it all together ... you'd think for a city that practices "sprawl" they'd spread things out a bit ...
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Re: Bike Valet !!

Postby JagXKR » Oct 16th, 2018, 9:30 am

spooker wrote:
You haven't read the previous threads with people claiming that only people in cars pay for the roads? this idea has been debunked over and over again ...

Further reading: https://businessgazette.ca/who-pays-for-roads/


Ok so people everywhere pay for roads but people with vehicles pay more. That is the reality. Spin it all you want.
Also how did that bike get to the shop where it was purchased? Magic? More like a truck that paid fuel tax that went to the roads and other infrastructure. Gas Tax Fund also pays for many things other than roads. $278 Million in BC.

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2018MAH0019-000355

None of that money came from cyclists, it came from vehicles and their use of fuel.
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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Re: Bike Valet !!

Postby soupy » Oct 16th, 2018, 11:12 am

spooker wrote:
soupy wrote:
PFFFT, Penticton market is much better than Kelowna's


To that I have no argument ... love the format that Penticton has ... Kelowna just jams it all together ... you'd think for a city that practices "sprawl" they'd spread things out a bit ...


Penticton's will only get better and better. Next year the old Mule will be a brewery basically feet from the market. :130:

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Re: Bike Valet !!

Postby southy » Oct 16th, 2018, 12:55 pm

:topic: BIke Valet!! I think the city should purchase a portable 20' x 20' 5 story bicade that is capable of holding at least 100 bikes. They could park it right in front of city hall. Parking fees would be 2 hours for $2. For a surcharge the valet service could include bike being personally delivered to the owner at a specific time and location. The city owned bicade could also be moved to other events like Peachfest … Vees games … Okanagan Beach .. buy a second one at put it down at Skaha. Revenue opportunities are endless. Perhaps the city could obtain market rights for this portable bicade and sell them or rent them to Ok Falls, Naramata, Summerland, Peachland, W. Kelowna, Kelowna and Vernon. Easy money for the city coffers. And job creation as well. Of course I jest! :130:

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Re: Bike Valet !!

Postby spooker » Oct 16th, 2018, 7:49 pm

JagXKR wrote:
Ok so people everywhere pay for roads but people with vehicles pay more. That is the reality. Spin it all you want.
Also how did that bike get to the shop where it was purchased? Magic? More like a truck that paid fuel tax that went to the roads and other infrastructure. Gas Tax Fund also pays for many things other than roads. $278 Million in BC.

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2018MAH0019-000355

None of that money came from cyclists, it came from vehicles and their use of fuel.


Let's see ... as a responsible business owner I would bundle the transportation costs into the price of the bicycle so the cyclist would be paying for the bike to travel from the manufacturer to the shop ... nothing comes for free ...

The Gas Tax pays for plenty ... but maybe 5% goes to roads ... the other 95% is coming from development costs and property taxes ... as mentioned in my previous linked article, those dev costs are bundled into the purchase price of the house/apartment/condo ... and a homeowner pays the same amount whether they have a car or a bike ...

And when you compare how much maintenance roads need because of damage from a 1-tonne vehicle versus a bicycle, the amount paid by the cyclist covers many more kilometres while the driver needs to be subsidized by other taxes ...

Anyway, it's not simple math with all the government accounting in the mix ... much the same thing as how the majority of people don't understand how their property value relates to the actual property tax they pay each year and how you have to look at local change vs median change and then look at the budget request for that year ... but you're not alone in thinking people in cars actually pay for what they use ... unfortunately it's wrong and easily refuted ...
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Re: Bike Valet !!

Postby twobits » Oct 16th, 2018, 8:23 pm

wanderingchef wrote:Twobits, you have got to be kidding. You think you pay ICBC for the right to use the roads? What license fees are you referring to? I am pretty sure its our taxes that go to that......

Your statement is so misinformed, ignorant and well.......wrong.


Licensing fee's can be directed to any use. I never brought up ICBC. The City could establish a bicycle fee to help pay for the lanes of asphalt they cover.
And in all honesty, I do not have a problem with taxpayer paid for bike lanes. The problem I have with bike lanes is that we are paying for them when .05% of the public uses them for maybe 6 months of the year. And what brainiac thought that bike lanes uphill to the Columbia or upper Duncan area would attract any use??? The cost of painting the friggen bike lane lines cost 1000 times more than the fuel saved by the two bikes you will see in any one day in the middle of Summer.
I travel because of business, Government St every day probably 4 to 8 times a day. Between 7 and 9 am and 3 to 5 pm, it would be unusual to see more than 3 or 4 people on bikes going in either direction. And that is fair weather months. Except when a bike race is scheduled the next week.
IMO, we are not the climate, geography, or demographic to support turning every major thoroughfare to include a bike lane. It is a waste of resources better spend on developing a north/south bike route that eliminates vehicle/bike conflict.
What I see is bike zealots...fanatics....that just seem to be delusional enough to think this is a "build it and they will come", when quite clearly it is not going to happen when the obvious direction of the South Okanagan is towards the retirement economy.
And quite tongue in cheek and said just for you bike lane lovers.......a better investment in this community would be dedicated scooter lanes. If they existed today......they would outnumber cyclists already by 10 to 1.
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Re: Bike Valet !!

Postby spooker » Oct 16th, 2018, 8:52 pm

twobits wrote:
Licensing fee's can be directed to any use. I never brought up ICBC. The City could establish a bicycle fee to help pay for the lanes of asphalt they cover.
And in all honesty, I do not have a problem with taxpayer paid for bike lanes.


You do know that cyclists pay taxes too right?

twobits wrote:The problem I have with bike lanes is that we are paying for them when .05% of the public uses them for maybe 6 months of the year. And what brainiac thought that bike lanes uphill to the Columbia or upper Duncan area would attract any use??? The cost of painting the friggen bike lane lines cost 1000 times more than the fuel saved by the two bikes you will see in any one day in the middle of Summer.
I travel because of business, Government St every day probably 4 to 8 times a day. Between 7 and 9 am and 3 to 5 pm, it would be unusual to see more than 3 or 4 people on bikes going in either direction. And that is fair weather months. Except when a bike race is scheduled the next week.
IMO, we are not the climate, geography, or demographic to support turning every major thoroughfare to include a bike lane. It is a waste of resources better spend on developing a north/south bike route that eliminates vehicle/bike conflict.
What I see is bike zealots...fanatics....that just seem to be delusional enough to think this is a "build it and they will come", when quite clearly it is not going to happen when the obvious direction of the South Okanagan is towards the retirement economy.


Actually the studies have shown that it is a "build it and they will come" type of issue ... people will cycle more when there is a safer environment to ride ...

And there are year-round cyclists here ... but one thing that's been found is that people who are not inclined to cycle or have a bad attitude toward cyclists will actually tune them out ... you might not be seeing them unless they force the issue ... it happens ...
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Re: Bike Valet !!

Postby southy » Oct 16th, 2018, 9:21 pm

I am just a little confused as to the "build it and they will come". Who are they? Where are they coming from? And when will they use it? I see more cyclists riding out on Naramata Road than I see in the entire city of Penticton. What gives with that. I mean the city invests thousands upon thousands developing bike lanes, yet cyclists use one of the most narrow roadways in the area. Same could be said for Eastside Road. I also have to wonder if this city has so many cyclists, what is their demographic. I mean we have two secondary schools in town … yet as I drive by them I see very few bicycles. As a matter of fact at Pen High all I see is a parking lot full of vehicles. My take is there is a small group of cycling enthusiasts who have a false view of the actual number of riders in town. Yes you have your cycling club … look beyond that and where exactly are all these other cyclists. And sorry … when I hear the word cyclist I automatically see spandex and the color RED!! Because usually there is an attitude that goes with that spandex .. just read some of the previous posts. By the way … isn't Mayor Jak a cyclist? Hummm ….

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Re: Bike Valet !!

Postby spooker » Oct 17th, 2018, 5:39 am

Our typical idea for building roads is that when existing infrastructure gets overcrowded with cars we expand it with more routes/lanes ... problem solved ... wait until the pressure makes us spend the money ...

With cycling it's different ... the main reason that people don't cycle is because they don't feel safe ... so you're not going to see the bike traffic grow until you build more infrastructure ... sure, there are others like me that ride anything at anytime, but we're the exception ... we don't need to have infrastructure because we have habits and practices that make us immortal in regular traffic ... it's the 60% of people who will bike more when they feel safe that we spend the money on ... and the final 33%, the ones who will never cycle no matter what, well, they are what they are ,...
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Re: Bike Valet !!

Postby JagXKR » Oct 17th, 2018, 9:45 am

So these percentage numbers are being pulled from where? Nevermind I know.
I don't bike as often as I want not due to safety but for convenience and weather and practicality.
Also this BS about build it and they will come is so out of tune with the demographics of Penticton. Do you live here? Do you know the average age of the population? What their capabilities are? On any given morning I see at least 10x more people walking than biking.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the idea of the market having a bike paddock but the vast majority of those down there (let's pull a number out of my ... like 99.9%) drove a vehicle.
How much money do you spend on something so few use in the pursuit of an idyllic, but myopic, dream? :dash:

Also are you good buddies with Gregor? Don't be like him, he is a useless tool.
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.

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