City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Re: City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Postby twobits » Dec 6th, 2018, 7:45 pm

Chessman wrote:This is so Penticton.... ongoing community dysfunction ...forever and ever ! This is just the latest divisive topic du jour.
DPA, what are you thinking? they want crime to be reduced downtown but want pot shops...*bleep* ?
Campbell Watt is “Teflon Man “ ,won’t offer a final opinion until he figures out which way the wind is blowing. Typical Watt provides comments on both side of the debate. Greasy political tactics Campbell .


Wow. What an intelligent assessment. Are you actually so disconnected from society that you cannot differentiate between the "downtown" crime crew and just ordinary citizens that have jobs and families that will visit these establishments without passing out on the sidewalk, dropping their glass containers, urinating in storefront alcoves, or parking their arses on a mat to collect change to buy the next crack or meth hit? You have never progressed beyond the "Reefer Madness" propaganda posters.

Can't wait for the public hearing on these bylaw change proposals. If I am reading public sentiment correctly, along with the DPA's stated position......this exclusion area is set up for failure.
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Re: City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Postby Chessman » Dec 6th, 2018, 10:49 pm

Twobits no need to be disrespectful, I have my opinion and you have yours. Good news is North America Universities are beginning to conduct more and more research on the subject of Recreational Marijuana sales and its impact on violent crime and property crime.
Ohio State University published research on April 27,2017 in the “Journal of Primary Prevention” after a three year study on legal marijuana sales impact on crime ( property and violent). While it is only one study it did conclude that “Legal marijuana stores lead to increases in property crime “ in adjacent area’s to the shops. The study did not illustrate increases to violent crime ( no real difference vs violent crime caused by alcohol).

I wonder if the DPA fully considered the impact on property crime if the shops are opened in the downtown.? I am sure they will be up in arms if property crime rates continue to escalate with the pot shops opening downtown.

Facts and evidence will trump opinion (which is merely an expression of a person’s feelings that can’t be proven).

With legalization communities and citizens still have the right to determine where the shops can and cannot be situated.
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Re: City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Postby fluffy » Dec 7th, 2018, 8:18 am

Chessman wrote:I wonder if the DPA fully considered the impact on property crime if the shops are opened in the downtown.? I am sure they will be up in arms if property crime rates continue to escalate with the pot shops opening downtown.


Apples and oranges. Drug related property crime is generally the purview of more viciously addictive substances, like crack or meth. The effect of cannabis outlets on other members of a neighbourhood will likely be restricted to things like Dorito consumption and the affected store owners can simply order a couple of extra cases.
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Re: City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Postby ToddT » Dec 7th, 2018, 9:36 am

One would think with all of the locally owned restaurants downtown, that they would not only be clamouring for a pot shop, but a legal weed smoking zone so when the munchies hit they line their pocket books with the markup they put on their overpriced appies. Stoned people is good business in a tourist climate.

Maybe this is what we've needed all these years to sustain hospitality and tourism over the winter months?
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Re: City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Postby southy » Dec 7th, 2018, 9:50 am

The whole issue is bs. I'm not sure how those in the big white building can say … " they consider the 100-200-300 and front Street the "highest value retail streets in the community." Oh … gee … they changed their wording from a short time ago. Remember they were calling those blocks .. “cultivated image”. Unbelievable. One has to wonder who's personal agenda it is to prohibit weed shops in the highest value retail streets in the community. Is the planning department and Blake Laven? Does Peter Weeber play into this?? One can't bash the current mayor and council (yet) as this was in the planning stages long before they were elected. Total BS … nice to see the DPA standing their ground for their membership. Shouldn't the city be listening to them??? Really folks … marijuana is now legal … LEGAL. No different the alcohol outlets .. probably less harmful in my opinion. These shops will be controlled so what's the big deal.

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Re: City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Postby twobits » Dec 7th, 2018, 8:19 pm

Chessman wrote:Twobits no need to be disrespectful, I have my opinion and you have yours.


Sorry for being disrespectful but it is hard not to be when you are stuck in some archaic past propaganda smear and then post a few recent links that support your concerns that are dubious at best. For every one of your posted supporting links, there are 1000 times that many about alcohol. Do you enjoy a cocktail or two or some glasses of wine? Maybe a cpl of cold beer?
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Re: City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Postby twobits » Dec 7th, 2018, 8:44 pm

southy wrote:The whole issue is bs. I'm not sure how those in the big white building can say … " they consider the 100-200-300 and front Street the "highest value retail streets in the community."


I would think that Sq ft rents charged for C1 zoned property compared across the City would call this claim of highest value retail area absolute BS. What does retail cost pr square ft in the 100 and 200 block cost now compared to Pent Plaza, Cherry Lane, Peach Tree, and every other C1 zoned property in between?
That's a rhetorical question. I'll save you the trouble. Retail space in Penticton is cheapest downtown.
Whats's really happening here is the City administrator putting forth a false statement of highest value retail property to prevent backlash on spending millions of dollars on what is truly the lowest rent retail district in Penticton.
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Re: City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Postby southy » Dec 7th, 2018, 9:29 pm

You are absolutely correct Twobits. And if you don't mind I would like to borrow a phrase of yours that really nails this. "Nothing more than lipstick on a pig!" This group will do anything to try and justify their decision making. There is a lot more to worry about at and inside city hall than just the mayor and council.

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Re: City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Postby fluffy » Dec 8th, 2018, 5:53 am

I think I see the vision that city hall has for downtown, it would be to see the Front Street "flavour" spread onto Main Street giving us a tourist/shopper destination along the lines of Fort Langley or some of the trendier neighbourhoods of Vancouver. As a survival strategy for downtown, and a shot in the arm for tourism in Penticton, I agree that this could be successful if the economy and local business interests were on board.

More to the topic, would a pot shop be out of place in such a neighbourhood ? Being such a new addition to the retail menu I'm sure it would raise some hackles, but I'm of the mind that as time passes the detractors will calm down due to the greater numbers of those who have no problem with retail pot stores.
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Re: City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Postby Drip_Torch » Dec 8th, 2018, 12:24 pm

southy wrote:You are absolutely correct Twobits. And if you don't mind I would like to borrow a phrase of yours that really nails this. "Nothing more than lipstick on a pig!" This group will do anything to try and justify their decision making. There is a lot more to worry about at and inside city hall than just the mayor and council.


I couldn't agree with you more - and, currently can't agree with you more, so I'll leave it at that.

Two issues that seem to be getting overlooked, in my personal opinion.

Legalization seems to be an effective way of removing the money that's currently bleeding into the black market and putting it into the mainstream economy. I think that's a good thing. With it, there is the opportunity to create a few retail businesses and the jobs that follow.

The problem I have with the current tail dragging going on in Penticton is the approach seems to anticipate big money and big problems. I don't see any evidence to support that. Legalization, although not without a few hitches and complaints, largely went off in an extremely underwhelming manner. I didn't notice and wouldn't if the city wasn't still making a big issue of it all.

Penticton's licencing fees and the grappling they are doing with the bylaw that establishes acceptable locations is, in my opinion, sending money out of town, or into the established black market. The other thing is the over the top fees are going to need to be paid and I don't see the margin under the current legal framework as being particularly lucrative. Those fees are probably going to need to come out of the retail employees wages and benefits packages.

Personally, I don't care where, or even if, Penticton sets up these retail stores, but I do believe it would be nice to start shutting down the black market economy, move the folks that want the product away from the street dealers. And above all else, I'd like to see our local economy benefit from a few more retail jobs and the economic activity that will be generated by these stores.

I'll say it again. I think we should just get on with it.

Somewhere in city hall there's a block in the decision making pipeline that needs to be unplugged.
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Re: City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Postby pentona » Dec 8th, 2018, 12:35 pm

Drip_Torch wrote:I couldn't agree with you more - and, currently can't agree with you more, so I'll leave it at that.

Two issues that seem to be getting overlooked, in my personal opinion.

Legalization seems to be an effective way of removing the money that's currently bleeding into the black market and putting it into the mainstream economy. I think that's a good thing. With it, there is the opportunity to create a few retail businesses and the jobs that follow.

The problem I have with the current tail dragging going on in Penticton is the approach seems to anticipate big money and big problems. I don't see any evidence to support that. Legalization, although not without a few hitches and complaints, largely went off in an extremely underwhelming manner. I didn't notice and wouldn't if the city wasn't still making a big issue of it all.

Penticton's licencing fees and the grappling they are doing with the bylaw that establishes acceptable locations is, in my opinion, sending money out of town, or into the established black market. The other thing is the over the top fees are going to need to be paid and I don't see the margin under the current legal framework as being particularly lucrative. Those fees are probably going to need to come out of the retail employees wages and benefits packages.

Personally, I don't care where, or even if, Penticton sets up these retail stores, but I do believe it would be nice to start shutting down the black market economy, move the folks that want the product away from the street dealers. And above all else, I'd like to see our local economy benefit from a few more retail jobs and the economic activity that will be generated by these stores.

I'll say it again. I think we should just get on with it.

Somewhere in city hall there's a block in the decision making pipeline that needs to be unplugged.


I couldn't agree more. I do not like how a few city managers seem to think that they are some kinda gods and are trying to wag the dog (council). They need to remember that their jobs are exempt positions and can be terminated at any time. No union protection whatsoever.

Is it true that Cannabis outlets in Penticton may be nailed with a hefty startup fee or annual taxes moreso than any other retail store? If the products that they sell are legal, what would be the justification in this?

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Re: City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Postby Drip_Torch » Dec 8th, 2018, 12:52 pm

pentona wrote:s it true that Cannabis outlets in Penticton may be nailed with a hefty startup fee or annual taxes moreso than any other retail store? If the products that they sell are legal, what would be the justification in this?



I can't imagine what the justification for this is and I see it as the city taking the sunshine tax out of the employees pockets before the stores are even setup and running.

In Penticton, city staff have recommended a $5,000 annual licensing fee for pot shops in addition to a $2,500 application fee. Less than 20 kilometres away, in Summerland, the application fee is only $1,500 and the licensing fee is $400.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.4921124

I might be wrong, but I understand it's $175 to license a liquor store.
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Re: City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Postby pentona » Dec 8th, 2018, 1:06 pm

Drip_Torch wrote:
I can't imagine what the justification for this is and I see it as the city taking the sunshine tax out of the employees pockets before the stores are even setup and running.

In Penticton, city staff have recommended a $5,000 annual licensing fee for pot shops in addition to a $2,500 application fee. Less than 20 kilometres away, in Summerland, the application fee is only $1,500 and the licensing fee is $400.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.4921124

I might be wrong, but I understand it's $175 to license a liquor store.


If that is so, thats just B.S. License fee should be the same as a Liquor Store or Tobacco outlet. Both legal products. I think its time that council put whoever in the city management dept in their place and realized that downtown, including Main and Front Streets needs an injection of cash that stores like this would bring.

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Re: City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Postby pentona » Dec 8th, 2018, 1:09 pm

Drip_Torch wrote:
Somewhere in city hall there's a block in the decision making pipeline that needs to be unplugged.


Perhaps that "block" should be removed (fired) for being the opposite of promoting business startups on Main and Front streets.
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Re: City wasting time and money - their decison is made.

Postby Drip_Torch » Dec 8th, 2018, 1:25 pm

pentona wrote:If that is so, thats just B.S. License fee should be the same as a Liquor Store or Tobacco outlet. Both legal products. I think its time that council put whoever in the city management dept in their place and realized that downtown, including Main and Front Streets needs an injection of cash that stores like this would bring.


I do understand how people, including city managers, can formulate and hang onto personal bias. What I don't understand is how a 175 million dollar a year corporation doesn't have the management systems in place to separate those biases out of the decision making processes.

I see the opportunity to create full time jobs. Those folks will be participating in our local economy with those wages and benefits. How the city can feel good about taking a slice out of those businesses before they are even up and running is beyond me.
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