Lake to lake bike lane

Re: Lake to lake bike lane

Postby spooker » Jan 10th, 2019, 4:06 pm

soupy wrote:I registered my bike with this program.
It won't help stop the initial theft, but it will help in recovery of stolen property, and ideally charges as it would presumably be much easier to prove the thief was indeed in possession of property that had been reported stolen.


All of my bikes are registered with this program ... I sold my wife's previous commuter that I had registered to a friend and it was stolen when they left it out overnight in front of the apartment building tied up to a rack with a cable lock ... two months later I happen to see the bike in the possession of a guy with a shopping cart going down the road ... I go over and ask for my wife's bike back ... he balks ... I pull out my phone and show him the registration including pictures of my wife with the bike in question ... he hands it over ... I get it back to my friend and she bakes me a wonderful loaf of banana bread!

Can we agree that cable locks are not real locks? Bike racks are a good thing for downtown, not as much for employees but for the regular shopping public they will be good when they are properly placed (i.e. not in the back of the building or out of sight) ... but for gosh sakes, buy a freakin' lock that a thief would look at and decide something else would be easier! And learn how to use it? I've seen people use a good Kryptonite U-lock to go through the extender cable and lock to the rack but the steel bar doesn't actually secure the frame to the rack ... I've got a picture of someone who wrapped the lock around the seat post and the seat post was secured with a quick-release, no tools needed to steal that one ...

We need racks, we need good paths ... that's the start to getting people who don't feel safe in the current environment out of their cars and onto a bicycle ...
--
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. -- Plato

soupy likes this post.
User avatar
spooker
Übergod
 
Posts: 1313
Likes: 1027 posts
Liked in: 795 posts
Joined: May 12th, 2009, 4:18 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC, CA

Re: Lake to lake bike lane

Postby soupy » Jan 10th, 2019, 4:12 pm

pentona wrote:
soupy wrote:
I registered my bike with this program.
It won't help stop the initial theft, but it will help in recovery of stolen property, and ideally charges as it would presumably be much easier to prove the thief was indeed in possession of property that had been reported stolen.


I was initially in favor of this program, however as the thieves often just "chop-shop" the bikes, the frames (with the indentification numbers on them) can be discarded and they just sell the other parts. Remember the famous 300 block Winnipeg Street garage? Until they can nail these guys properly, thievery will continue.

With regards to the lake to lake lanes, the PIB path makes the most sense. Whoever thought of using Government Street had little in the brains department. That route was supposed to be four-laned at one time (a little late now) and even though there are bike lanes on it, they can never be divided by barricades as too many vehicles stop (even temporarily) on the side of the street. People even put out their garbage/recycle bins on Government Street (if there is no lane) and putting barriers there to create a divided bike lane would not be possible. It was completely the wrong street to put any bike lanes on.


Oh I know about the chop shop and agree the program isn't the answer we are looking for. But a free way to register the serial # , picture and description of one's property doesn't hurt.
Like i said before all it will do is likely help recover some bikes (or bike parts) to their original owners but it will not stop theft.

PIB pathway would be great to establish some business not he other side of the channel, and a fun bike ride walk from lake to lake without impeding vehicle traffic and seeing all the fun floaters.
soupy
Board Meister
 
Posts: 620
Likes: 1160 posts
Liked in: 571 posts
Joined: May 14th, 2006, 9:31 pm

Re: Lake to lake bike lane

Postby JagXKR » Jan 10th, 2019, 5:28 pm

soupy wrote:As for the top cop blaming victims. I do agree with some of the things he says.
IE. 75% of thefts from vehicles occur when doors are left unlocked, windows down or valued items left in plain site.
These victims should take some blame IMO.
Today's world is different than it was years ago. I don't understand how / why people continue to leave valuable items in a vehicle unsecured from theft.


Disagree totally. This is just giving up, throwing in the towel etc. Then after giving up then putting blame on victims. The fact that the legal system is broken and can't deal with career criminals does not justify blaming victims. To me it's ridiculous.

As for the band doing something with the pathway I have just changed my mind. Yes I'm allowed to do that.
Seeing Dawn, and the others, at the protest has made me realize that any discussion with our neighbors is basically a waste of time. Back to the days of blockades.
Maybe deny any CC lease renewal as well.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton ... t-pipeline
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.
User avatar
JagXKR
Übergod
 
Posts: 1376
Likes: 3 posts
Liked in: 1225 posts
Joined: Jun 19th, 2011, 5:25 am
Location: Penticton

Re: Lake to lake bike lane

Postby bluemooncanada » Jan 10th, 2019, 5:31 pm

I do hope the City will require bike licensing, with clearly visible plate. Helps pay for the bike lanes, like other public travel route users have to and also helps track down stolen bikes. No plate = stolen. Plate number for police to check in their patrols = find more stolen bikes and maybe even the thieves?
bluemooncanada
 
Posts: 3
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 0 post
Joined: Aug 11th, 2009, 6:05 pm

Re: Lake to lake bike lane

Postby soupy » Jan 10th, 2019, 5:41 pm

JagXKR wrote:
soupy wrote:As for the top cop blaming victims. I do agree with some of the things he says.
IE. 75% of thefts from vehicles occur when doors are left unlocked, windows down or valued items left in plain site.
These victims should take some blame IMO.
Today's world is different than it was years ago. I don't understand how / why people continue to leave valuable items in a vehicle unsecured from theft.


Disagree totally. This is just giving up, throwing in the towel etc. Then after giving up then putting blame on victims. The fact that the legal system is broken and can't deal with career criminals does not justify blaming victims. To me it's ridiculous.
Never mentioned anything about giving up or said the legal system wasn't broken. It clearly is.
I do think there is A LOT of prevention methods a person can do to limit themselves from becoming a victim of crime
Where was that article from today about the Truck stolen left with keys in the ignition? Ok Falls?
Do you seriously think the owner of the vehicle has ZERO culpability in this? Likely never would have had the truck stolen if they didnt leave keys in the ignition !!!!

As for the band doing something with the pathway I have just changed my mind. Yes I'm allowed to do that.
Seeing Dawn, and the others, at the protest has made me realize that any discussion with our neighbors is basically a waste of time. Back to the days of blockades.
Maybe deny any CC lease renewal as well.
No disagreement here. As much as I'd love to see that pathway redone I definitely won't be holding my breathe in the anticipation of it happening
https://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton ... t-pipeline
soupy
Board Meister
 
Posts: 620
Likes: 1160 posts
Liked in: 571 posts
Joined: May 14th, 2006, 9:31 pm

Re: Lake to lake bike lane

Postby twobits » Jan 10th, 2019, 7:02 pm

Cyclists seem to think everything should be free because they don't burn gasoline or diesel. They want dedicated barrier protected lanes. They want bike racks to secure their rides too. All for free.
Might I humbly suggest some kind of contribution from the thousands (choke choke) of cyclists in Penticton in the form of annual license fee's and liability insurance. Perhaps even some collision insurance. I have had two vehicles scraped by bike handle bars or brake levers in the last decade.
If the thousands of you (choke choke) paid even 100 bucks a year for a City License fee, a downtown area could be a designated paid for bike parking lot that could be secured and monitored.
Problem is you won't get more than 20 bike riders to agree to pay for anything because they think they are doing enough to save the planet by riding a bike.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.

4 people like this post.
twobits
Guru
 
Posts: 6956
Likes: 961 posts
Liked in: 3472 posts
Joined: Nov 25th, 2010, 8:44 am
Location: GPS says Dead Elbow Utah. Think I'm lost

Re: Lake to lake bike lane

Postby JagXKR » Jan 11th, 2019, 10:09 am

soupy wrote:[color=#FF0000]Never mentioned anything about giving up or said the legal system wasn't broken. It clearly is.
I do think there is A LOT of prevention methods a person can do to limit themselves from becoming a victim of crime


So where is the line drawn on victim blaming? If I'm on the sidewalk and some drunk driver jumps the curb and hits me is it my fault for being there? No of course not, but I could have assumed that there was a drunk driver and stopped and looked at every car driving down the street. Seems a bit overkill right? So does having to lock the entire bike and take all the pieces away into my workplace. In your analogy if you don't then it's your fault. Your fault for being a victim.

As I said it's throwing in the towel and saying there is nothing the system will do to protect me so I need to do it myself. This leads to vigilantism. The top cop says it's your fault. The one who is supposed to protect me from the skumbag criminals stealing bikes is blaming me for the job he won't do. Protect the public from theft. Bikes, cars, houses etc
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.
User avatar
JagXKR
Übergod
 
Posts: 1376
Likes: 3 posts
Liked in: 1225 posts
Joined: Jun 19th, 2011, 5:25 am
Location: Penticton

Re: Lake to lake bike lane

Postby soupy » Jan 11th, 2019, 10:32 am

JagXKR wrote:
soupy wrote:Never mentioned anything about giving up or said the legal system wasn't broken. It clearly is.
I do think there is A LOT of prevention methods a person can do to limit themselves from becoming a victim of crime


So where is the line drawn on victim blaming? If I'm on the sidewalk and some drunk driver jumps the curb and hits me is it my fault for being there? No of course not, but I could have assumed that there was a drunk driver and stopped and looked at every car driving down the street. Seems a bit overkill right?
[color=#FF0000]Very uncommon scenario. Obviously no fault of the victim. What is the likelyhood? LOW
So does having to lock the entire bike and take all the pieces away into my workplace. In your analogy if you don't then it's your fault. Your fault for being a victim.
Bike theft. VERY COMMON. Much more preventable.
Use a risk assessment. What is the likelyhood of bike theft? HIGH. Protect yourself.


As I said it's throwing in the towel and saying there is nothing the system will do to protect me so I need to do it myself.
This is correct. Protect yourself. The system cannot reverse time, your items have already been stolen
This leads to vigilantism. The top cop says it's your fault. The one who is supposed to protect me from the skumbag criminals stealing bikes is blaming me for the job he won't do. Protect the public from theft. Bikes, cars, houses etc

So Police should be constantly watching over everyone's bikes, cars, houses?

Taken from yesterday's store from Osoyoos.

RCMP in Osoyoos are urging the public to be responsible to help avoid property crime after a truck theft occurred this week when the keys were left in the vehicle.
On Monday, Jan. 7, RCMP responded to an early morning theft of a 1992 Ford F150 pickup truck from a Cottonwood Drive residence. The keys to the truck had been left in the ignition.
The truck was subsequently located two days later still in Osoyoos, with the key remaining in the ignition.
A suspect has not been identified and due to the condition of its interior, police were unable to collect forensic evidence from the vehicle.
RCMP say this appears to have been a crime of opportunity which could have been avoided had the vehicle been left secured.


I will bet you $10,000 this theft would not have occured had keys not been left in the truck.

Better yet. How about we both park our cars at the mall this weekend. I'll lock my doors and leave a nice jacket in the trunk. You park next to me and leave the doors unlocked and a nice jacket on the seat.

Then we will ask 100 people which of us invited themselves to be a victim.
soupy
Board Meister
 
Posts: 620
Likes: 1160 posts
Liked in: 571 posts
Joined: May 14th, 2006, 9:31 pm

Re: Lake to lake bike lane

Postby spooker » Jan 11th, 2019, 11:21 am

bluemooncanada wrote:I do hope the City will require bike licensing, with clearly visible plate. Helps pay for the bike lanes, like other public travel route users have to and also helps track down stolen bikes. No plate = stolen. Plate number for police to check in their patrols = find more stolen bikes and maybe even the thieves?


twobits wrote:Cyclists seem to think everything should be free because they don't burn gasoline or diesel. They want dedicated barrier protected lanes. They want bike racks to secure their rides too. All for free.
Might I humbly suggest some kind of contribution from the thousands (choke choke) of cyclists in Penticton in the form of annual license fee's and liability insurance. Perhaps even some collision insurance. I have had two vehicles scraped by bike handle bars or brake levers in the last decade.
If the thousands of you (choke choke) paid even 100 bucks a year for a City License fee, a downtown area could be a designated paid for bike parking lot that could be secured and monitored.
Problem is you won't get more than 20 bike riders to agree to pay for anything because they think they are doing enough to save the planet by riding a bike.


Seriously, pedalling the myth that cyclists get a free ride again?

As a cyclist I pay more than my fair share for the roadways through my taxes, just like everyone else does ... and through my homeowners insurance policy I have liability insurance if I am at fault for damages in a collision ...

As a cyclist I require parking that measures about 6 sqft whereas a car requires 144 sqft ... which is a more efficient use of space? (you'd have to get 24 people in your car to equal the same usage)

Please understand that our love of cars and demand for quicker and more roads is the reason for a large portion of the taxes that everyone complains about ... roads are expensive because they need to carry all these heavy vehicles and last for as many years as they can ...
--
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. -- Plato

soupy likes this post.
User avatar
spooker
Übergod
 
Posts: 1313
Likes: 1027 posts
Liked in: 795 posts
Joined: May 12th, 2009, 4:18 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC, CA

Re: Lake to lake bike lane

Postby southy » Jan 11th, 2019, 11:49 am

Since bicycle theft seems to go hand in hand with the trail discussion, I came across two really good articles I thought I would share.

1. Advise from a thief: https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2016 ... ally-work/

2. What you should do with your bike: https://www.stolenride.co.uk/ridevsthief/

XT225 likes this post.
southy
Grand Pooh-bah
 
Posts: 2098
Likes: 428 posts
Liked in: 755 posts
Joined: Jun 1st, 2010, 3:14 pm

Re: Lake to lake bike lane

Postby JagXKR » Jan 11th, 2019, 12:26 pm

soupy wrote:
Then we will ask 100 people which of us invited themselves to be a victim.


You are a victim blamer and it's a slippery slope to the next level. Where do you draw the line? And should there even be a line? Bike theft, car theft etc today and then next is blaming someone for being assaulted. Too far? Why? There is no reasonable reason to blame any victim of a crime. Woman wearing a tight top walking downtown gets molested. Her fault? Maybe a little bit?

It's all the same and not recognizing that fact is the problem. Not realizing that by giving in to the criminals, ie my fault for leaving something in plain site but locked up, is inherently wrong. Store fronts shouldn't have anything displayed in their windows because if someone break the glass and steals products they are to blame? Nope, the criminal is to blame, end of story.
Victim blaming is just justifying the broken system and throwing in the towel and putting the onus on innocent victims that did nothing wrong except for being victims. Then getting victimized AGAIN by those that blame them, even if it's just blaming partly.

Seems I will never convince you nor you me. And yes I have been a victim in many different ways, from simple petty theft to much more heinous crimes. In every case where the perpetrator was identified all had previous convictions yet were still out victimizing. And we have people like you that still blame me and other victims for being victims.
Must be something I did, right? Nope.
BTW my bike is a cheap old bike that is not worth anything. Because the police will blame me for an expensive bike being stolen. "You made it tantalizing for the thieves", my fault right?
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.
User avatar
JagXKR
Übergod
 
Posts: 1376
Likes: 3 posts
Liked in: 1225 posts
Joined: Jun 19th, 2011, 5:25 am
Location: Penticton

Re: Lake to lake bike lane

Postby soupy » Jan 11th, 2019, 12:50 pm

JagXKR wrote:
soupy wrote:
Then we will ask 100 people which of us invited themselves to be a victim.


You are a victim blamer and it's a slippery slope to the next level. Where do you draw the line? And should there even be a line? Bike theft, car theft etc today and then next is blaming someone for being assaulted. Too far? Why? There is no reasonable reason to blame any victim of a crime. Woman wearing a tight top walking downtown gets molested. Her fault? Maybe a little bit?
I am only discussing victims of theft
It's all the same and not recognizing that fact is the problem. Not realizing that by giving in to the criminals, ie my fault for leaving something in plain site but locked up, is inherently wrong. Store fronts shouldn't have anything displayed in their windows because if someone break the glass and steals products they are to blame? Nope, the criminal is to blame, end of story.
With this logic stores shouldn't need locks when they close up, or security tages on high value items right?Yet many do because it is a method of prevention against theft
Victim blaming is just justifying the broken system and throwing in the towel and putting the onus on innocent victims that did nothing wrong except for being victims. Then getting victimized AGAIN by those that blame them, even if it's just blaming partly.

Seems I will never convince you nor you me. And yes I have been a victim in many different ways, from simple petty theft to much more heinous crimes. In every case where the perpetrator was identified all had previous convictions yet were still out victimizing.
I did mention earlier i agree the system is broken. Hence why people must take preventitive measures
And we have people like you that still blame me and other victims for being victims.
Must be something I did, right? Nope.
BTW my bike is a cheap old bike that is not worth anything. Because the police will blame me for an expensive bike being stolen. "You made it tantalizing for the thieves", my fault right?


Question. Do you lock your door when you leave your house? If so, why?

Plus I have never once indicated all victims are to blame. But many crimes are done out of opportunity. And many times there would be no opportunity if someone locked sometime. Or didnt leave it in site.

PS .. Does that mean you don't want to test out my mall parking lot idea?
soupy
Board Meister
 
Posts: 620
Likes: 1160 posts
Liked in: 571 posts
Joined: May 14th, 2006, 9:31 pm

Re: Lake to lake bike lane

Postby twobits » Jan 14th, 2019, 4:22 pm

soupy wrote:Question. Do you lock your door when you leave your house? If so, why?

Plus I have never once indicated all victims are to blame. But many crimes are done out of opportunity. And many times there would be no opportunity if someone locked sometime. Or didnt leave it in site.



We used to not have to worry about locking our doors or leaving our purchases in view inside a car because we had trust in humankind as well as an equal trust in the justice system to appropriately punish those that breached those societal understandings. And it all worked well until Liberals and social advocates took over. Now, instead of punishment for crime committed, we pay for analysis of why the *bleep* committed the crime. We have created an industry as well as an academia PHD in "why criminals should be understood, cuddled, and be released to be better citizens after 12 court mandated Councillor sessions".

You think we should accept 50% of the blame if we don't lock our house or leave a bag on the car seat that has "walmart" printed on it??? What is your next suggestion? We all should not only lock our doors cuz glass is so easy to break and have steel bars installed and a Brink's Security combination safe to store our jewelry and the kids play station when we leave the house or we are enabling crimes of opportunity??
Thieves are fning thieves and they need to be treated as such. I can leave a steak on the coffee table in my house and even my dog is smart enough to understand it does not belong to him and he leaves it alone. Apparently some members of our society are not as smart as my dog.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.

2 people like this post.
twobits
Guru
 
Posts: 6956
Likes: 961 posts
Liked in: 3472 posts
Joined: Nov 25th, 2010, 8:44 am
Location: GPS says Dead Elbow Utah. Think I'm lost

Re: Lake to lake bike lane

Postby soupy » Jan 14th, 2019, 5:14 pm

twobits wrote:
soupy wrote:Question. Do you lock your door when you leave your house? If so, why?

Plus I have never once indicated all victims are to blame. But many crimes are done out of opportunity. And many times there would be no opportunity if someone locked sometime. Or didnt leave it in site.



We used to not have to worry about locking our doors or leaving our purchases in view inside a car because we had trust in humankind as well as an equal trust in the justice system to appropriately punish those that breached those societal understandings. And it all worked well until Liberals and social advocates took over. Now, instead of punishment for crime committed, we pay for analysis of why the *bleep* committed the crime. We have created an industry as well as an academia PHD in "why criminals should be understood, cuddled, and be released to be better citizens after 12 court mandated Councillor sessions".

You think we should accept 50% of the blame if we don't lock our house or leave a bag on the car seat that has "walmart" printed on it??? What is your next suggestion? We all should not only lock our doors cuz glass is so easy to break and have steel bars installed and a Brink's Security combination safe to store our jewelry and the kids play station when we leave the house or we are enabling crimes of opportunity??
Thieves are fning thieves and they need to be treated as such. I can leave a steak on the coffee table in my house and even my dog is smart enough to understand it does not belong to him and he leaves it alone. Apparently some members of our society are not as smart as my dog.


I have posted already that I agree the system is broken. Have also posted my opinion of what should happen to those caught stealing. (Fingers broken is a good start imo)

However, as a realist i know that the days of no longer having to lock up your house / car are gone. You say you used to not have to worry about it. Times have changed unfortunately. I am assuming you lock your front door now. That means you are growing with the times already.

And it does not take much at all to prevent yourself from being an easy target, as these are crimes based on opportunity.

So to say the person who left keys in their truck's ignition is partially to blame is not far fetched.
Do you leave your keys in your unlocked car's ignition?
soupy
Board Meister
 
Posts: 620
Likes: 1160 posts
Liked in: 571 posts
Joined: May 14th, 2006, 9:31 pm

Re: Lake to lake bike lane

Postby twobits » Jan 15th, 2019, 6:45 pm

soupy wrote:And it does not take much at all to prevent yourself from being an easy target, as these are crimes based on opportunity.



Leaving a vehicle unlocked I can agree is inviting opportunistic crime. But does opportunist also include two plastic door stop wedges that cost two bucks at the dollar store, a one pound weight such as a rock or landscape brick, and about 24 inches of coat hanger wire? The two doorstop wedges at the top rear corner of the door will pry a locked car door open far enough to almost put your hand into to unlock. The piece of coat hanger will press or hook the electric door lock switch. All done in 30 seconds by even crack addled minds.
They watched BCAA tow truck drivers wedge doors open.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.
twobits
Guru
 
Posts: 6956
Likes: 961 posts
Liked in: 3472 posts
Joined: Nov 25th, 2010, 8:44 am
Location: GPS says Dead Elbow Utah. Think I'm lost

PreviousNext

Return to South Okanagan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests