Where are they all coming from?

Re: Where are they all coming from?

Postby fluffy » May 27th, 2019, 9:16 am

Mike Br. wrote:There already are adequate treatment programs, widely availbale.


No, there are not.

The programs with the best track records are residential programs that take the addict into a controlled environment for four weeks or more. These programs used to be publicly funded in their entirety but fell prey to government cutbacks from the Gordon Campbell days on. The current NDP makes lofty promises, but hasn't progressed past "reviewing and studying" since taking power. Strategies today focus on harm reduction, free drug testing and overdose kits, and replacement therapies, effective in the short term by saving lives but abject failures in dealing with the root problem of addiction. Residential treatment facilities today are largely privately run and focus on adult males. Beds for adult females are harder to find, and beds for youth of either sex nearly impossible. Government assistance in covering the cost of treatment is difficult to qualify for and falls short of covering the complete cost, leaving those struggling financially out in the cold.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/what-we-learned-phoning-every-drug-rehab-facility-in-british-columbia-1.3756425

https://www.newwestrecord.ca/ndp-dragging-its-feet-in-opioid-crisis-response-liberals-1.23450151

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/need-drug-treatment-you-should-be-able-to-ask-for-help-once-and-get-support-right-away-report
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Re: Where are they all coming from?

Postby kgcayenne » May 27th, 2019, 9:20 am

I guess his definition of widely available is different from the rest of us. It$ Availability might be widely $o for $ome but not other$.
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Re: Where are they all coming from?

Postby fluffy » May 27th, 2019, 9:22 am

Country plough boy wrote:But it is their fault. I was an addict. It was my fault. See how easy that is.


Then you more than most should understand concepts like "addictive personality" and what a huge step it is to actually take responsibility for your own problem and turn things around, along with the way non-addicts tend to view addicts.

Did you make use of any recovery programs?
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Re: Where are they all coming from?

Postby fluffy » May 27th, 2019, 9:23 am

kgcayenne wrote:I guess his definition of widely available is different from the rest of us. It$ Availability might be widely $o for $ome but not other$.


Exactly. The people under discussion here aren't likely to have funds enough for residential treatment, and the supply of government funding for them is at best scarce.
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Re: Where are they all coming from?

Postby Country plough boy » May 27th, 2019, 9:26 am

fluffy wrote:
Country plough boy wrote:But it is their fault. I was an addict. It was my fault. See how easy that is.


Then you more than most should understand concepts like "addictive personality" and what a huge step it is to actually take responsibility for your own problem and turn things around, along with the way non-addicts tend to view addicts.

Did you make use of any recovery programs?




No. I walked away. I hit rock bottom. Stayed there for 6 months. Slowly got my DL back. Bank accounts took several years . It is very hard to put a life back together. I had my family gave me a room for a while. It was an aweful thing to go thru. Kills me to see what passes for recovery programs now days. Id probably be dead had i gotten help like that
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Re: Where are they all coming from?

Postby Country plough boy » May 27th, 2019, 9:28 am

fluffy wrote:
kgcayenne wrote:I guess his definition of widely available is different from the rest of us. It$ Availability might be widely $o for $ome but not other$.


Exactly. The people under discussion here aren't likely to have funds enough for residential treatment, and the supply of government funding for them is at best scarce.




As fas as addictive personality. Im not sure. For me i litterally tried something once. Went on about a 4 year life wrecking tour. Then dropped it all just as easy.
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Re: Where are they all coming from?

Postby hupur » May 27th, 2019, 3:09 pm

Its become a lifestyle for some ...not all,but some people..hang out get stoned,sleep wherever
eat pretty good due to soft hearted folks,,steal everything because the courts are too busty to care about that..

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Re: Where are they all coming from?

Postby nihiriju » May 27th, 2019, 9:01 pm

My redneck solution is a mandatory 10 yr sentence for anyone caught selling non prescription opioids, mandatory life on a second offence. Hit the supply chain hard. I would be happy to pay for the incarceration of these people. Better that, and cheaper too I suspect, than funding Naloxone, rehab facilities, and social housing to consume drugs in. All while pretending the roof and bed is going to change anything in their life except give them a place to do drugs and peddle their stolen goods acquired while working folks sleep.
Is it some kind of coincidence that every country that does not have an opioid problem also deals with the drug traders with an absolute certainty as to the consequences??


You realize that the average cost per prisoner per year is over $115,000 right? It is WAY, WAY cheaper to find solutions that don't send these people to baby sitting camp (jail). One could easily fund housing, meals and rehab centres for much cheaper than that. Not that I advocate that as a primary solution. The goal should be to reduce the number of people in these situations and develop ways to prevent further people from doing it.

Unfortunately I don't think jail is often much of a deterrent and it costs you and me way more money than other systems. I think we need a combination of social shamming, and mandatory work/ school programs ( if you want housing/ services/ etc) to give options to join society again a rehabilitate these people.

I'm open to hearing other solutions, but look at the whole costs, not just the punishment, I don't want to pay for these people forever and jail is an even worse form of free loading in my eyes. They screwed up real bad if we have to spend that much money.

March 22 2018 Incarcerations Costs Canada - PDF - http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2018/dpb-pbo/YN5-152-2018-eng.pdf
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Re: Where are they all coming from?

Postby Country plough boy » May 27th, 2019, 9:21 pm

Well if its only 115k. We must be close to that with 30k a bed for Tombstone. Plus whatever else.
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Re: Where are they all coming from?

Postby Mike Br. » May 28th, 2019, 10:48 am

nihiriju wrote:You realize that the average cost per prisoner per year is over $115,000 right?


It doesn't need to be that much. Set up a camp somewhere in high Arctic, air-drop them supplies every once in a while, and let them be guarded by polar bears.
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Re: Where are they all coming from?

Postby AngryBuddha » May 28th, 2019, 1:09 pm

To answer the original question, I think they're coming from all points in Canada as Penticton has the reputation for enabling dregs.

Quite honestly, the SJWs and bleeding hearts in this town is just as bad and they much rather have this city turn into another downtown eastside.

There is a problem when kids can't play outside during recess or go to the beach for the fear of stepping on used needles and the enablers are too far concerned about "protecting" the less fortunate.

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Re: Where are they all coming from?

Postby twobits » May 28th, 2019, 7:13 pm

nihiriju wrote:
You realize that the average cost per prisoner per year is over $115,000 right? It is WAY, WAY cheaper to find solutions that don't send these people to baby sitting camp (jail). One could easily fund housing, meals and rehab centres for much cheaper than that. Not that I advocate that as a primary solution. The goal should be to reduce the number of people in these situations and develop ways to prevent further people from doing it.

Unfortunately I don't think jail is often much of a deterrent and it costs you and me way more money than other systems. I think we need a combination of social shamming, and mandatory work/ school programs ( if you want housing/ services/ etc) to give options to join society again a rehabilitate these people.

I'm open to hearing other solutions, but look at the whole costs, not just the punishment, I don't want to pay for these people forever and jail is an even worse form of free loading in my eyes. They screwed up real bad if we have to spend that much money.

March 22 2018 Incarcerations Costs Canada - PDF - http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2018/dpb-pbo/YN5-152-2018-eng.pdf


Oh lord. This is where you bleeding heart libs lose track of common sense. Read my post again before you reply. I clearly said hit the supply chain hard.....not the street addict. And if the addict is dealing to support the habit, in the slammer as well.
It won't take long before the supply dries up when serious time is going to happen. It really is that simply even at 115k per year for incarceration and much cheaper for the taxpayer in the long game.
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Re: Where are they all coming from?

Postby my10cents » May 29th, 2019, 6:30 am

I agree with you twobits :smt045
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Re: Where are they all coming from?

Postby the truth » May 29th, 2019, 11:33 am

AngryBuddha wrote:To answer the original question, I think they're coming from all points in Canada as Penticton has the reputation for enabling dregs.

Quite honestly, the SJWs and bleeding hearts in this town is just as bad and they much rather have this city turn into another downtown eastside.

There is a problem when kids can't play outside during recess or go to the beach for the fear of stepping on used needles and the enablers are too far concerned about "protecting" the less fortunate.


yup...............
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell

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Re: Where are they all coming from?

Postby kgcayenne » May 31st, 2019, 9:46 pm

A couple of Billie Holiday quotes:

In this country, don`t forget, a habit is no damn private hell. There`s no solitary confinement outside of jail. A habit is hell for those you love. And in this country it`s the worst kind of hell for those who love you.


All dope can do for you is kill you... the long hard way. And it can kill the people you love right along with you.
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Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your kids.

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