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Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

Re: Clear cutting and Flooding

Postby What_the » Jun 17th, 2017, 1:20 am

masen wrote:The snow melt when clear cutting has been done in this valley not only causes faster runoff but also creates more water from the snow. I am not sure of why but maybe the speed of it there is less time for evaporation at higher levels or on route. There should be more discussion on this. The tree roots also will not hold water after the trees have been cut as they are either completely dead or almost so. None of this is a surprise to many people as we all know that if the ground isn't shaded by the trees snow melt will happen faster. We are all responsible for allowing clear cutting.

Someone else that sees culpability through action or inaction. Nice.
Would so rather be over educated that a knuckle dragging Neanderthal bereft of critical thought and imagination. Although in the case of Neanderthals, that's quite the insult.
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Re: Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

Postby MJB55 » Jun 20th, 2017, 6:22 pm

https://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton ... vel-review

The man in charge was worried about a drought in Feb and March??? Meanwhile, there was a very high snow pack and record rainfall. The gates were not opened until May. This not a guessing game. It's science. The flooding could have been averted with more competent administration. We had similar rain and snow in 1997 when the gates in Penticton were properly managed, minimizing the damage. The incompetency needs to be addressed in order to prevent this from ever happening again. People affected were not only people living on the lake and near creeks. Tourism in the Okanagan continues to be impacted, causing devastating loss of profit for the many businesses that rely on summer visitors for their survival. The devastation and economic impact are huge and I hope the review is made public so that we can all be assured that more competent people will be making the future decisions that affect so many people.

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Re: Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

Postby kgcayenne » Jun 20th, 2017, 7:56 pm

Snowpack is misleading. Wind causes snow to shrink; it is called sublimation. Estimating runoff from observed snowpack would require a high degree of clairvoyance in order to predict what the wind will do, or not do for that matter.

By the time the weird Spring-ter weather happened, increasing releases would have been like emptying an Olympic pool with an eye dropper. Have you happened to notice how small the start of OK river is in comparison to the lake?
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Re: Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

Postby LTD » Jun 20th, 2017, 8:01 pm

o please its not rocket science all they had to do was go look rent a snowmobile its incompetence on all levels the wind will affect snow so will rain and guess what so does the sun we get all three of those every spring usually in the same day over and over for a couple months

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Re: Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

Postby nepal » Jun 21st, 2017, 7:11 am

nepal wrote:Part of the problem: It used to be that the forest would retain and slowly release water, but now it is more challenging to predict rapid water runoff from clear-cut logged areas. Also, more paving and roof areas, contribute to rapid runoff.
Some solutions: Selective logging leaves the forest largely intact, thus maintaining water retention better. In built-up urban areas on-site water retention marshes help retain water.


Some Okanagan Lake beaches are now covered in wood washed down from clear-cuts. No wonder flash-floods are occurring.
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Re: Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

Postby LTD » Jun 21st, 2017, 7:33 am

yes because theres no sticks or logs along the banks of creeks and rivers so it must be from clearcutting :up: keep grasping I'm sure you live in a mud hut right
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Re: Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

Postby dominik » Jun 21st, 2017, 7:39 am

LTD wrote:yes because theres no sticks or logs along the banks of creeks and rivers so it must be from clearcutting :up: keep grasping I'm sure you live in a mud hut right


Consider the fires, and following development. It has gotten worse over time this was just one heck of an anomaly and could happen again next year. May was unusually wet for the Okanagan, and we had considerably more thunderstorms over the last few months than over the last few years.

I'd say we all would be morons if we want to talk about "who didn't see this coming". Many of us fully expected immediate drought situations, based on previous years, not a wet season facilitating a rapid melt followed by an immediate hot climate change. I mean, snow on the Coque, then Rain Storms, then Fires, then Snow? Talk about an interesting weather pattern.
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Re: Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

Postby LTD » Jun 21st, 2017, 7:44 am

sorry man I'm not buying it one flood incident in years and its from logging and development lol not even close this was a man made problem due to incompetence nothing more, the only rapid melt that took place was when mill creek flooded that was warm weather then a bunch of rain melting lower elevation snow high elevation snowpack has been business as usual . when one doesn't lower the lake level accordingly one can expect flooding.
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Re: Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

Postby dominik » Jun 21st, 2017, 7:53 am

LTD wrote:sorry man I'm not buying it one flood incident in years and its from logging and development lol not even close this was a man made problem due to incompetence nothing more


No worries, you are entitled to your opinion ;). To be fair though we had series of floodings over the last few years. Just in smaller areas, due to ground water and creeks rising. Enterprise and Dilworth comes to mind, or bridge closures on swamp road due to high water flows.

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Re: Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

Postby Graham Adder » Jun 24th, 2017, 11:45 am

Twisting the screw valve is not a perfect science.
Data is gathered over years to determine an average.
All decisions are based on data, not armchair engineers.
Just as weather changes without notice, so too do the results of those unforeseen weather changes.
This is so basic to understand, it floors me that people capable of using a keyboard are still trying to lay blame on one single person and their choices.
Armchair engineering is about as accurate as, and just as annoying as an armchair quarterback on Sunday afternoon.
They have a tendency to make one want to slap the corn-nuts out of their hand and drag them by the scruff right out the front door.
Then, you turn to your guests and ask, "Who the :cuss: let that moron in here?"
While sitting on the front lawn, scratching his balding melon, the armchair engineer ponders what just happened. He hears a little voice in his head ask, "Who is the moron that didn't see this coming?"

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Re: Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

Postby dirtybiker » Jun 25th, 2017, 10:13 am

MMMmmm...corn nuts.....

Eloquently put GA. :up:
"Don't 'p' down my neck then tell me it's raining!"
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Re: Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

Postby steve mc » Jul 25th, 2017, 11:11 am

the morons are the taxpaying people this was totally inept government management looking forward to review hopefully will be a public
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Re: Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

Postby Glacier » Jul 28th, 2017, 1:29 pm

MJB55 wrote:https://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton/198564/Calls-for-lake-level-review

The man in charge was worried about a drought in Feb and March??? Meanwhile, there was a very high snow pack and record rainfall. The gates were not opened until May. This not a guessing game. It's science.

Then why are you guessing? The snowpack was not high let alone very high in February and March as you assert, for the science says so.

The snowpack on January 1st was 79% of normal. That's very low.
The snowpack on February 1st was 79% of normal. That's very low.
The snowpack on March 1st was 86% of normal. That's still quite low.
The snowpack on April 1st was 105% of normal, which is average.
It was NOT until May 7th when the May 1st snowpack data was released that the snowpack was finally above normal in the Okanagan (146% of normal).

By May 15th the snowpack was up to 151% of normal, and by June 1st it was 228% of normal. No one saw that coming, nor could they. The operator did everything right given the scientific data available. You or I would have done the same thing. It was a freak one-off year that couldn't be avoided.

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Re: Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

Postby dirtybiker » Jul 30th, 2017, 9:06 pm

Thanks Glacier.....but...but...but...

Some will not let the facts get in the way of a good public flogging.
"Don't 'p' down my neck then tell me it's raining!"

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Re: Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

Postby Silverstarqueen » Aug 1st, 2017, 3:20 pm

Why not avoid the guessing game by locating your home in a non-flood prone area? All the people who did manage to flood this year, are they going to stay put and sue if they are flooded again next year, or five years from now?
Now that we are in to a long dry spell, there could well be a shortage of water, people will be saying why didn't we plan better and hold more water back for possible fire fighting or to keep the trees and vegetation from drying up so badly that any little spark spreads like.. wildfire.
I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who situate a home right on a lake, or in an old marshbed, or historical natural drainage gulley off a mountain, and then complain that it floods at some point. If you build your home right next to a creek, it's going to swell in some spring run-offs, not so much in others, find out where it has flooded to in past years.And insure your home accordingly. IF you can't get flood insurance, that's a good clue right there.
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