Who is the moron who didn't see this coming?

[the truth]

The only morons I can see in this whole thing are a handful of people with no training or experience criticizing the people who do have it.

seems to me the people in charge have no experience or training

[LTD]

ya the fact the lake level was way higher in the spring than ive ever seen it had nothing to do with it the fact that the real morons who control that couldn't figure out that rain down here in march and april falls as snow up top had nothing to do with it I think some of you need to take off the blinders and think about it a bit

[What_the]

Well it does seem to me, truthy, that you have contempt for any one that has more experience or better education than you.

These people don't get these kind of jobs by walking off the street and being a simpleton.

I have no doubts that the people in charge did the best they could with what they had at their disposal. You know, kind of like cops who make mistakes but are given the benefit of the doubt.

There's a term for this thread-

The empty can rattles the most.

[the truth]

better education means nothing if common sense does not come with it, as many of you have shown on these fourms

[nepal]

Part of the problem: It used to be that the forest would retain and slowly release water, but now it is more challenging to predict rapid water runoff from clear-cut logged areas. Also, more paving and roof areas, contribute to rapid runoff.
Some solutions: Selective logging leaves the forest largely intact, thus maintaining water retention better. In built-up urban areas on-site water retention marshes help retain water.

[dieseluphammerdown]

Please don't start making this personal. stick to the

[What_the]

better education means nothing if common sense does not come with it, as many of you have shown on these fourms

Common sense? Common sense literally means using facts and coming to reasoned conclusions.

But I will agree with you in one hand, without experience a degrees doesn't mean much. That's why theres practicum during those degrees and by the time someone assumes the position such as this, they generally have years of experience under their belt.

Edited to not be personal

[LTD]

another way to retain water is to lower the lake level to a sufficient level to retain the water and as an added bonus it prevents flooding

[Treblehook]

The guy is an engineer, so you can hardly muse that he is uneducated...

[LTD]

I don't think the blame can be laid on any one person in particular but the system definitely had a major break down this shouldn't be happening anywhere near as bad as it is

[Marnie Whidden]

While I appreciate lake control is a matter that involves statistical analysis weather forecasting and the exercise of judgment, the evidence is clear that the modeling and decision making they use is inadequate and there is a lot they need to learn. Recently there have been regular annual announcements during the winter about below average snow packs and this year it was no different. Then by spring it is as if nothing was said and the lake goes to full pool. This year well over that.

What is troublesome about the news from the official dealing with the dam at Penticton is he is saying he did what he thought was best, there was no way to predict this or to prevent or even mitigate the situation, and If he could turn back the clock he would not do anything differently. If that is the case then he is saying there is nothing for him to learn from this. That is very sad and scary for us if he continues to hold the reins into the future. The province needs to offer him a retirement package and get someone new involved who is more intelligent and willing to think outside the box of decision making parameters and criterion they are currently using. We need new ideas.

Additionally they should increase the size of the lake draining capability at Penticton for the next time this might happen. They can no longer say it is unprecedented.

When an airliner crashes and they have access to the wreck, there is always something they learn about it. They dig into the evidence as deeply as they can until they find the answer to help prevent similar disaster in the future. Aircraft design and human factors are both looked at. We should be able to get a much better handle on the lake levels applying this approach. They have to be able to prevent this in the future or at least to mitigate it so it never gets this bad again. If no one admits this its time to clean house.

[Richard in Peachland]

Nice post Marnie.

I think that it appears that the snow pack data may not have been accurate.

The common sense part of it is that the Valley was getting a lot more snow than usually. Were I in Mr. Reimer's position I would have a program to test the validity of the snow pack compared to the amount of snow that is falling. When someone presents me with data to feed my flood matrix I would be in a position to question the validity of the snow pack measurements. Who would imagine that the snow pack was not significantly greater than normal wasn't paying attention.

With all the funding involved in climate change I am losing confidence on the data collection. Why not fudge a bit on the readings the readings help your career and finances?

[WalterWhite]

While I appreciate lake control is a matter that involves statistical analysis weather forecasting and the exercise of judgment, the evidence is clear that the modeling and decision making they use is inadequate and there is a lot they need to learn. Recently there have been regular annual announcements during the winter about below average snow packs and this year it was no different. Then by spring it is as if nothing was said and the lake goes to full pool. This year well over that.

What is troublesome about the news from the official dealing with the dam at Penticton is he is saying he did what he thought was best, there was no way to predict this or to prevent or even mitigate the situation, and If he could turn back the clock he would not do anything differently. If that is the case then he is saying there is nothing for him to learn from this. That is very sad and scary for us if he continues to hold the reins into the future. The province needs to offer him a retirement package and get someone new involved who is more intelligent and willing to think outside the box of decision making parameters and criterion they are currently using. We need new ideas.

Additionally they should increase the size of the lake draining capability at Penticton for the next time this might happen. They can no longer say it is unprecedented.

When an airliner crashes and they have access to the wreck, there is always something they learn about it. They dig into the evidence as deeply as they can until they find the answer to help prevent similar disaster in the future. Aircraft design and human factors are both looked at. We should be able to get a much better handle on the lake levels applying this approach. They have to be able to prevent this in the future or at least to mitigate it so it never gets this bad again. If no one admits this its time to clean house.

I agree with some of your points, however I think the one key component here is the weather. I haven't taken the time to look further into the correlation between snow pack levels, precipitation during the crucial period where flow adjustments would have been made - because it's all well beyond my abilities to comprehend and make heads or tails of the data - not my forte. I was, and always am surprised as it seems they trot out the same news release each year, as the Okanagan Basin Water Board announced early in the year (January or February) that snow pack levels were way below normal and water restrictions and drought conditions were going to be experienced this spring and summer. How the hell can they forecast that I thought to myself, with so much weather still to come? March and April is traditionally some of the bigger months for precip - and May was completely off track from the norm - and we ended up with a very significant snow pack, that also had what I understand to be a high water content that only increased as April rolled into May.

The issue of the volume of outflow unfortunately isn't simply to make it bigger. All that water has to go somewhere, and it does - the issue is increasing it beyond what is currently being discharged would have negative impacts to a number of areas downstream - simply moving the flood issue somewhere else. We all like to be able to point a finger at someone or something especially when it involves institutions funded by tax dollars - "that's our money and we deserve better". Well, maybe the issue needs to be put forth directly to Mother Nature so this doesn't happen again. Now, where's our flamboyant Mayor Sugarplum - sounds like a task that's right up his alley.

[nepal]

As well as looking at the ability drain water from the lake, the source of rapid water inflow needs to investigated. These satellite photos show the extensive clear-cut quilt on the Okanagan watershed. Take a drive up onto the surrounding mountains and look down some of the back roads and you can see the deforestratrtion is substantial. Forest water retention is possibly an issue here. Forest water retention gives slow water release, so we have water available further into the year. With deforest ration, we'll get the flash flood now, then a lack of water inflow the rest of the year.

[LTD]

we get it youre against logging but that's not the issue here there were clear cuts in those areas long before this year this is a result of not paying attention to the conditions at upper elevations all someone had to do was borrow or rent a snowmobile in april and their eyes woulda been opened