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Fire Philpot and 33

Re: Fire Philpot and 33

Postby Queen K » Aug 28th, 2017, 3:17 pm

Page 324 - deforestation due to logging. Tree loss. Logging caused the soils to be loosened off and the run off and saturation from Winter snows and rain just took it down. I read the geological explanation as to why this can happen too. Glacial deposits etc. Who is say anything on a hill doesn't go down? Rest in Peace again to the Philpot family.

I am concerned for the area because Winter is coming and the Philpot Road area will have tree loss. But as Rwede points out, it's the other side, but who is to say there won't be a second time event as the 1990 slide is noted as a "first time event."
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Re: Fire Philpot and 33

Postby Catsumi » Aug 28th, 2017, 3:47 pm

Massive tree loss....if it isn't fires, beetle kill, it's clearcuts. I feel so sad for what were glorious forests when i first came to B.C. in 1968.

I often wonder why we cannot do selective tree cutting as has been done with great success in the European forests. Why are we left with large swaths of uncovered land that deteriorates quickly during rain downpours and hastened snowmelt runoff?

It is now an eyesore in the Cherryville area and expect more to be taken as rebuilding will begin in Texas with a vengeance. They will need lotsa wood.

Oh well, darn trees! Either they burn up or fall down.
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Re: Fire Philpot and 33

Postby Woodenhead » Aug 28th, 2017, 5:09 pm

Catsumi wrote:Oh well, darn trees! Either they burn up or fall down.
:cuss:

Or I end up splitting & stacking them. [icon_lol2.gif]
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Re: Fire Philpot and 33

Postby Queen K » Aug 28th, 2017, 7:04 pm

Isn't burned out dead trees the same thing as massive tree loss?
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Re: Fire Philpot and 33

Postby Barney Google » Aug 29th, 2017, 7:35 am

Saw, up close and personal, part of the impacted areas yesterday.

I have no words.

Devastatingly sad and very humbling.
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Re: Fire Philpot and 33

Postby Rwede » Aug 29th, 2017, 7:36 am

Catsumi wrote:Massive tree loss....if it isn't fires, beetle kill, it's clearcuts. I feel so sad for what were glorious forests when i first came to B.C. in 1968.

I often wonder why we cannot do selective tree cutting as has been done with great success in the European forests. Why are we left with large swaths of uncovered land that deteriorates quickly during rain downpours and hastened snowmelt runoff?

It is now an eyesore in the Cherryville area and expect more to be taken as rebuilding will begin in Texas with a vengeance. They will need lotsa wood.

Oh well, darn trees! Either they burn up or fall down.
:cuss:


European forests are not even-aged stands of lodgepole pine.

Natural cycle on lodgepole is that they grow, get attacked by pests, die, burn, and regrow. Their cones need heat to open and shed seeds.

Clearcut logging of lodgepole pine mimics the natural disturbance of fire. That's primarily why it's used. Fire is indiscriminate in which trees it takes out.

Also, if lodgepole is selectively logged, the remaining trees all blow over with the first wind event, because they are a shallow-rooted species that depends on density to protect itself from massive windthrow. Blowdown creates unsuitable habitat for wildlife, results in wasted fibre, and slows regrowth of affected areas.

Moreover, selective harvesting of lodgepole pine is extremely dangerous for loggers and forestry workers, as remaining trees can topple at any time when the area is disturbed. And regrowth of lodgepole in selective stands just doesn't work, as the tree canopy shades seedlings and stunts their growth.

Our predominantly lodgepole forests in this area are meant to be even-aged stands with an 80 - 120 year cycle. Uneven aged lodgepole stands simply don't mimic nature, and the trees respond poorly to such harvesting.
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Re: Fire Philpot and 33

Postby Queen K » Aug 29th, 2017, 7:44 am

Barney Google wrote:Saw, up close and personal, part of the impacted areas yesterday.

I have no words.

Devastatingly sad and very humbling.


I can't imagine. And yet if we accept that fires are part of the natural ecological cycle and our suppression of them has allowed fuels to build up, we have to accept that the changes are natural and will re-generate into what we'd recognize as forests again, if we aged to 200 years old.

I saw re-growth where the 2003 fire swept through, mainly off of Chute Lake Road, the trees are growing. They're there. Just tiny. It will be the next generation of kids who may see their shade.

What is worse for people like my friend on Peregrine is that one can never be sure when the next fire monster sweep through due to any cause, but worse, preventable, like a discarded cigarette. They had to move out six horses.

Barney Google, without your first hand accounts added to this thread, we would have been poorer in insight and scope of understanding. Thank you for holding the line and keeping us all as up to date as possible. I was thinking of your power and cell phone issue when you said you werent' sure if you could keep posting if your smartphone lost power. This is where personal use of solar panels really shines in rural and urban settings when the power goes out with no "return" time guaranteed.

https://www.amazon.ca/s/?ie=UTF8&keywor ... t=&hvlocph
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Re: Fire Philpot and 33

Postby dale mck » Aug 29th, 2017, 8:31 am

The other way to charge your phone is a cheap,,,especially when they go on sale,,inverter that plugs into your car lighter socket. Good for any small electronic recharging.
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Re: Fire Philpot and 33

Postby Queen K » Aug 29th, 2017, 9:32 am

Okay, as long as you've got gas to burn in any isolated area.

Here is another consideration, the wildlife. Bears, deer, elk, and all small mammals have lost huge stores of food in all the BC fires.

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#205313

Of special interest to me is the herd of Elk up in the Joe Rich area. Has anyone seen any of them lately? :135:
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Re: Fire Philpot and 33

Postby Catsumi » Aug 29th, 2017, 10:17 am

Rwede

Thanks so much for your answer re clear cutting and selective logging.

So, i thought european forests were a mix of hard and softwoods, is that correct? If correct, that would explain how they can nip into the forest and selectively take the softwoods out as the hardwoods will stay standing on their own (not topple over due to shallow root systems). We don't have hardwoods in our forests, do we? Long ago I remember something about helicopter log retrieval, but what happened to that?

I read a very interesting book "kingdom of the pine beetle" which outlines the cycle of beetle population explosions in forests set off by drier conditions. After this summers' exceptional heat and dryness probably another cycle will commence again, 2018, setting up the stage for even more fires next year or year after. Europe's forests are also suffering from beetles.

How does this all end? Will we be left with nothing? Healthy forests help produce rainfall by cooling the immediate environment, but once the trees are gone, will that lead to desertification? Or just areas of grassland? Pardon any ignorance that I may be displaying but I really am struggling to understand why some feel that all these fires are a great thing, while others agree moderate burns are ok but despair with these mighty conflagrations.

I just skimmed over a recent news article saying that the USA was to purchase european softwood, bypassing Canada's product. That signals that they can produce enough for their own needs and for exports using selective logging, right?
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Re: Fire Philpot and 33

Postby Glacier » Aug 29th, 2017, 10:40 am

Catsumi wrote:I read a very interesting book "kingdom of the pine beetle" which outlines the cycle of beetle population explosions in forests set off by drier conditions. After this summers' exceptional heat and dryness probably another cycle will commence again, 2018, setting up the stage for even more fires next year or year after. Europe's forests are also suffering from beetles.

That's interesting that you'd mention that. The only time I've ever heard anyone mention the link between drought and the pine beetle was my wife' grandpa, who is a retired forester from way back. He was a forester in the US back in the 1950s before going on to teaching. He tried and moved to the Chilcotin back in the 1980s, right in the heart of the pine beetle epidemic.

Anyway, he would laugh at the BC government for blaming the epidemic on warmer winters. He would say, "come on, we knew this back in the 1950s! Down south in the US where you don't get cold winters, the beetles would get wiped out, not by cold, but by rain, for it's the drought that stresses the trees enough to not be able to withstand attacks."

Sure enough, some 5 years ago there was a really wet year in the Chilcotin, and epidemic ended. I can find dozens upon dozens of trees at their place or my mom's place that were attacked since then, but survived.

It's hard to say if this summer's drought will stress the trees because the winter and spring did leave a lot of moisture in the soil. It seems you need multi-year droughts to stress trees to the point of having massive die-off, though this summer has been so dry that maybe not this time.... not that there's any trees left of there to die! 1/5th of the Chilcotin Plateau has burned this year.

I don't know much about European forests, but I know they are much wetter than ours.

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Re: Fire Philpot and 33

Postby Barney Google » Aug 29th, 2017, 1:04 pm

Gotta share that the communications up here is horrid. Residents are receiving limited official news and even the

communications between the Crews working up here...Fire Fighters, RCMP, Traffic controllers, Hwys guys...are getting

mixed messages.

CORD just announced that another set of streets are being taken off of Evacuation Orders and put on Alert and some

more residents are now able to go home. Only thing is...HWY 33 is closed. lol

I haven't seen it, cause I been kinda busy but apparently Horgan announced that HWY 33 will open up 100% soon.
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Re: Fire Philpot and 33

Postby Glacier » Aug 29th, 2017, 1:36 pm

Looks like there's no fire activity on Philpot today.

https://fsapps.nwcg.gov/afm/googleearth ... ent=canada

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Re: Fire Philpot and 33

Postby Barney Google » Aug 30th, 2017, 5:35 am

With the Hwy reopened traffic through Joe Rich has returned to normal levels.

We've still got too many residents out of their homes and of those many are extremely frustrated within lack

of communication and information. Some Families have their home taken off Evac order lists and are cleared to go home

but have been denied entry because accessing properties and road ways are still on order lists. You cannot imagine

the level of frustration some folks are experiencing up here.

Residents that applied for emergency financial support are being told payments will take "a bit of time to be processed"

with one resident told to be patient there are 25,000 files before his. Apparently some going back to the start of the

fire season. For a good many Joe Rich residents, life has returned to a relatively not normal state. Lol. On our

Community Facebook page a complaint was posted last night of a resident complaining about the noise another resident

has been making at night. This was met by a reply by another resident saying they'd be happy to hear that noise and be home

than stuck with little information out of home and still on evacuation orders.
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Re: Fire Philpot and 33

Postby ferri » Aug 30th, 2017, 8:40 am

ferri wrote:ALL posts guessing at cause of fire will be deleted without comment. This thread is for UPDATES only!
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