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Shaw VS Telus Optik

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Re: Shaw VS Telus Optik

Postby Loed » Feb 9th, 2013, 12:27 pm

So you admit that Shaw gives you better over-all service, but you still bitch about a difference of 4-7 dollars?

Yes that's right, signing up to an equal, channel to channel, speed to speed offering from the two competitors, the difference is less than $10.
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Re: Shaw VS Telus Optik

Postby livewire » Feb 9th, 2013, 2:56 pm

I'll let you know when my first bill comes in if it is as they said it would be....before tax it should be $76 telus, $140 shaw.
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Re: Shaw VS Telus Optik

Postby underscore » Feb 9th, 2013, 3:28 pm

Loed wrote:If you don't understand the difference that a population of 1 million people can make to driving forward internet expansion then you're ignorant to the real problem.

Canada's major populations are EXTREMELY spread out and of much lower density than the mecca's you reference in other third world countries. This increases the cost of expansion and installation exponentially, as well as the profit and value in doing so dropping dramatically as well.

You can pretend that this is just meh, but in the world of business it is a good idea to make a profit from your installations within 2-3 years. If not, then it's not worth the installation of such high-end hardware.

I agree that there is some corporate bigotry going on, but it's not nearly as bad as you like to fool yourself into thinking and the places you think are doing significantly better have more than Canada's entire population, stuffed into the land mass of around 60% the size of BC. If you don't think this affects costs/profits then you really need to check it out.


Did the government not pay to have most of the major nationwide systems put in? Like netfreak said, you can get rather high speeds around here, they have the hardware in place, they just refuse to let consumers use it for a decent price.
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Re: Shaw VS Telus Optik

Postby netfreak » Feb 9th, 2013, 3:45 pm

Loed wrote:If you don't understand the difference that a population of 1 million people can make to driving forward internet expansion then you're ignorant to the real problem.

Canada's major populations are EXTREMELY spread out and of much lower density than the mecca's you reference in other third world countries. This increases the cost of expansion and installation exponentially, as well as the profit and value in doing so dropping dramatically as well.

You can pretend that this is just meh, but in the world of business it is a good idea to make a profit from your installations within 2-3 years. If not, then it's not worth the installation of such high-end hardware.

I agree that there is some corporate bigotry going on, but it's not nearly as bad as you like to fool yourself into thinking and the places you think are doing significantly better have more than Canada's entire population, stuffed into the land mass of around 60% the size of BC. If you don't think this affects costs/profits then you really need to check it out.


I would probably be more "OK" with their pricing if the government didn't subsidize this sort of infrastructure with public money back when it was built (BC Tel). Granted it wasn't *my* tax dollars, but I get the sense that consumers are paying twice for what is seemingly a third-world level product in comparison to other developed nations. I see Shaw trying to piggyback on Telus poles instead of paying out the money to build entirely their own infrastructure, so I'm wondering why I would pay inflated prices for their service?

Both have their evil sides.. Heck, a semi truck ran over a Telus fiber pole in Vernon like a month ago and I'm still seeing packet loss across that route. Another story recently relayed to me talked about how one provider (possibly Shaw) went and installed their lines on Telus poles without permission as it was cheaper to pay the fines instead of putting their own poles in. Really makes me trust them.
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Re: Shaw VS Telus Optik

Postby Loed » Feb 9th, 2013, 4:36 pm

I recommend you all start doing some actual research of your own instead of relying on "i thought i heard" and here-say.

There's a lot you're missing and a lot you're not understanding.

The government subsidized a lot of the backbone in Canada to encourage broadband adoption. After that it's still up to the ISP to front the costs for "last mile" connection. The last mile connection involves installing a great number of wiring, nodes and extraneous hardware. It's not as cheap as you want to think. They are also limited by man-power, time, city rules as to when they can work/dig in many areas, etc...

Piggy backing on poles is common all over the world because it is obviously much cheaper and other than the fines, it affects no-one in a negative manner.
Last edited by Loed on Feb 9th, 2013, 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shaw VS Telus Optik

Postby Loed » Feb 9th, 2013, 4:38 pm

livewire wrote:I'll let you know when my first bill comes in if it is as they said it would be....before tax it should be $76 telus, $140 shaw.


So you're getting the EXACT same speed, channel line up and features on your telephone?
If you are, then you're on "promotion packaging" and that will only last so long, then you're free to switch back to shaw and get the same promotion packaging(as long as telus didn't sang you on a contract).

Apples to apples, not apples to elephants.
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Re: Shaw VS Telus Optik

Postby Loed » Feb 9th, 2013, 4:42 pm

underscore wrote:Did the government not pay to have most of the major nationwide systems put in? Like netfreak said, you can get rather high speeds around here, they have the hardware in place, they just refuse to let consumers use it for a decent price.


As stated in another post, the government helped out with the major backbone, not the last mile connections which are the bulk of the cost and require a much higher investment over time.

I pay $75 a month for BB50 with shaw and I abuse the hell out of out, I'm maxing if not doubling my allotted B/W monthly.
For just over $2 a day I get a service that provides me(personally) with an entertainment value 10 times that amount.

There is nothing I can do that costs me $2 a day that provides the same experience as what my BB50 gives me.
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Re: Shaw VS Telus Optik

Postby livewire » Feb 9th, 2013, 7:28 pm

Loed. Yes same channels,better speed (new optik not regular telus) we don't have phone service. The point of my post was to gather information, wasn't meant to be a bash session for either provider, was simply looking for experiences with both.
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Re: Shaw VS Telus Optik

Postby Takin it easy ! » Feb 10th, 2013, 3:11 pm

Its a win win situation for Shaw and Telus and "lose" for the consumer a well beaten path by customers between the two suppliers and they know this is going to happen.
Not happy with one go with the other back and forth so they never really lose a customer.
Blame the CRTC for letting these monopolies keep us hostage making their millions and caring less for customers !
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Re: Shaw VS Telus Optik

Postby Woodenhead » Feb 10th, 2013, 3:34 pm

Oligopolies are great!

PS: I'm with Optik & have had no issues. I don't pay for it though.

(TekSavvy for internet - I pay for that)
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Re: Shaw VS Telus Optik

Postby Loed » Feb 10th, 2013, 4:59 pm

livewire wrote:Loed. Yes same channels,better speed (new optik not regular telus) we don't have phone service. The point of my post was to gather information, wasn't meant to be a bash session for either provider, was simply looking for experiences with both.


I'd like to see what packages you are subscribed to.

It's not possible for your package to be the same or better and cost THAT much less over-all without having a fairly nice promo code.
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Re: Shaw VS Telus Optik

Postby underscore » Feb 12th, 2013, 10:51 am

Loed wrote:As stated in another post, the government helped out with the major backbone, not the last mile connections which are the bulk of the cost and require a much higher investment over time.


Right, so then all of their complaints about how spread out Canada is are invalid and their costs should actually be about the same as other countries.
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Re: Shaw VS Telus Optik

Postby Loed » Feb 12th, 2013, 11:18 am

Incorrect.

Both Shaw and Telus suffer from the same lack of population that makes it worth while installing this infrastructure.

The bulk of the Canadian populace is extremely spread out, as I stated before, and this limitation is still in place. There's less people per Km in Canada, than there is in many of the major areas you people are comparing our services too.

The only reason smaller ISP's survive is because they get to piggy back off of their larger cousins for a rental fee(teksavvy, novus, etc...). I'm not bashing them, their prices are fantastic and Teksavvy's service people are up there with Shaw's in regards to quality and friendliness.

Again, I don't disagree that their prices are a little steep($195 for unlimited access? Bugger off!) and they are taking advantage of a few things here and there. The simple fact is I have seen Shaw change to offer more HD and the highest speed internet you can get outside of Van/Tor/Cal. The same cannot be said for Telus, Telus has rested where they are for many years, held back by their own infrastructure choice. Shaw has done a LOT of work in just the last 5 years to increase true high speed availability in western Canada. Shoot my home town was one of the first places to have steady access to fiber and their 250Mbps packages. This is a big part of why I stay with Shaw, they are actually improving and building on their infrastructure, but it takes time.
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Re: Shaw VS Telus Optik

Postby underscore » Feb 12th, 2013, 1:15 pm

But the backbone put in by the government takes care of a lot of people-free km's. If you already have a connection from City A to City B, then you can't use the space in between them to count the population density.
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Re: Shaw VS Telus Optik

Postby Loed » Feb 12th, 2013, 3:41 pm

underscore wrote:But the backbone put in by the government takes care of a lot of people-free km's. If you already have a connection from City A to City B, then you can't use the space in between them to count the population density.


*facepalm*

You can't just run one big wire and have everyone connected...

The population density in Kelowna/Vancouver is completely different than the high end cities in Korea, Japan, Sweden, etc...
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