Tech Shortage in Okanagan?

[davis123]

Searched around and couldn't find another topic regarding this, please point me in that direction if this is being discussed already, thanks!

Just read this article on Castanet
http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... htm#136326

From the article...The Okanagan is quickly becoming known as a technology hub for both British Columbia and Western Canada, but a recent national report forecasts a shortage of homegrown talent to fill the demand of tech jobs in the future.

In the Labour Market Outlook 2015-2019 report released last week by the Information and Communication Technology Council of Canada, it's estimated there will be a shortage of 182,000 tech jobs in Canada over the next five years.

That's where Okanagan College says they have stepped up with three programs to train students an offer co-op components...go to link above to read the entire article

The comments to that article is what brought me here, every comment states that the reason techs are not staying around Kelowna is that the wages are terrible here. Are there any Tech employers that frequent Castanet forums, or any employers actually? Do you think wages that hover around 15$ give or take are consistent with the level of schooling/knowledge required for a tech job?

I am really curious what is driving these ridiculous crap wages around Kelowna, yes obviously people gotta do what they gotta do to pay the rent/mortgage/groceries, so I understand why someone would accept that low paying wage BUT what are employers thinking? Are they trying to drive the talent out of town? Maybe they enjoy the constant turnover of employees leaving to higher paying jobs? It does not make any sense. Obviously these employees will leave the second something better comes up.

Not long ago I saw a job ad - office admin with accounting experience, proficient with ms office...the pay was 14$ an hour, really you want accounting experience and paying 14$ lol too funny
You see these jobs over and over, these are jobs that should be seeing well over 40,000 a year and yet they are starting these people at entry level wages

Average rent probably hovers at 1000$ for a 2 bedroom place...at 14$ an hour these people are paying 50% of their wage to rent. I think the employers paying these crap wages should put a little thought into how they expect their employees to pay for housing or get ahead at all. No bloody wonder they're all leaving town!

[rekabis]

The link you provided is for the business queue. The individual article is at http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/136326/Tech-shortage-in-Okanagan, and that does show the comments.

[Captain Awesome]

I stopped reading after "The Okanagan is quickly becoming known as a technology hub for both British Columbia and Western Canada" part.

[Loed]

When you're offered less than $20/hr for 10 years of experience and a portfolio/schooling to back it up you tend to move onto other centers where you can easily make 1.5 times that much and it's also cheaper to live month to month.

Kelowna doesn't offer very much that other areas don't already have, but it costs way more to live here.

Not to mention the management/owners of some of these places have no idea what is involved in some of these positions.

[forum]

A local security company I know is looking for a local IT specialist to perform IT services for them for less than $15/hr.
LOL...I can understand for $15/hr the technician would rather be outside blowing leaves off of rich peoples driveways in the sunshine!

[I am Canadian]

I stopped reading after "The Okanagan is quickly becoming known as a technology hub for both British Columbia and Western Canada" part.

Thought it was a joke as well when I saw that.

[HP]

A local security company I know is looking for a local IT specialist to perform IT services for them for less than $15/hr.

Well, there is more than one kind of tech... I mean, if I had some kind of brilliant idea I'd be looking for more than a $15/hr tech to run low voltage cables... but you're right. Those wages haven't gone up in a meaningful way in the 15 years I've been in the valley if at all.

There are some companies doing some interesting things in town. Avionics is interesting. There's the firm that makes PCB's for audio amplifiers, etc (can't remember the name)... they're interesting. The problem is that these are low-employment companies with a small handful of employees. People with electrical engineering degrees or electronics engineering technician skills... I think there is a general shortage of those types of skillsets but a corresponding shortage of requirement. That could be an area where some focus could be paid.

Location is becoming such a non-factor in developing a technology company. I find the proposition that Kelowna needs more tech workers to support it's imaginary status as a hub a little confusing. How did it become this 'hub' without talent here to support it? utter nonsense. Kelowna is not now, has it never been, nor will it be the center of the technology universe that the people from Accelerate Okanagan seem to believe it is. Now, if you're looking for a bunch of hacks who are legends in their own minds... got those in spades.

Wasn't the Okanagan valley supposed to be some kind of a call center hub back in the days of Marusa marketing? How's that going these days anyway?

Anyway, I don't really blame whoever wrote that article. Fact is that most people can't differentiate between Verilog and a Mouse so how are you supposed to explain a lack of skills in certain areas (i.e. more cable-runners NOT required, and certainly don't need more people who want to plug things in to see the lights blink).

If somebody wants to know what's really missing - its the skillset that can turn technological promise into a real solution to a real business problem. Find more of those people and THEN you'll have to worry about finding engineers, programmers and technicians... not before.

[Eyeswideopen]

I've been in tech my whole life. Been part of tech booms and busts all over the place. Heard it all. Most of the time it's greatly exaggerated.

Nowhere is that more true than in the Okanagan. There is actually very little tech here for the size imho. What employment is here is mostly lower skills type stuff. As others have said, the salaries are a joke. Then they complain they cannot find people with the right skill set....well duh. What they are actually complaining about is finding people with the right skill set willing to work for what they are willing to pay.

At least they appear to have dropped the "Silicon Vineyard" thing...I think. Can't blame them for trying I guess.

[StraitTalk]

Well, there is more than one kind of tech... I mean, if I had some kind of brilliant idea I'd be looking for more than a $15/hr tech to run low voltage cables... but you're right. Those wages haven't gone up in a meaningful way in the 15 years I've been in the valley if at all.

There are some companies doing some interesting things in town. Avionics is interesting. There's the firm that makes PCB's for audio amplifiers, etc (can't remember the name)... they're interesting. The problem is that these are low-employment companies with a small handful of employees. People with electrical engineering degrees or electronics engineering technician skills... I think there is a general shortage of those types of skillsets but a corresponding shortage of requirement. That could be an area where some focus could be paid.

Location is becoming such a non-factor in developing a technology company. I find the proposition that Kelowna needs more tech workers to support it's imaginary status as a hub a little confusing. How did it become this 'hub' without talent here to support it? utter nonsense. Kelowna is not now, has it never been, nor will it be the center of the technology universe that the people from Accelerate Okanagan seem to believe it is. Now, if you're looking for a bunch of hacks who are legends in their own minds... got those in spades.

Wasn't the Okanagan valley supposed to be some kind of a call center hub back in the days of Marusa marketing? How's that going these days anyway?

Anyway, I don't really blame whoever wrote that article. Fact is that most people can't differentiate between Verilog and a Mouse so how are you supposed to explain a lack of skills in certain areas (i.e. more cable-runners NOT required, and certainly don't need more people who want to plug things in to see the lights blink).

If somebody wants to know what's really missing - its the skillset that can turn technological promise into a real solution to a real business problem. Find more of those people and THEN you'll have to worry about finding engineers, programmers and technicians... not before.

The school system is guiding students into this mindset. I graduated high school five years ago and I've learned so much in the past five years since getting out of the education system, it's absolutely frightening. I got out of high school and I could tell you a few cool facts about physics and biology.. name off provinces, capitals and prime ministers..

It wasn't all bad. English, and logic-based courses were extremely helpful, but they weren't for everyone. (Math, Law, Business..)

I started to study meteorology and weather forecasting and learned how to program and am already very successful while I have literally endless amounts of friends graduating every year with Bachelors degrees working entry-level jobs for mediocre pay.

I still don't understand where all these tech jobs are, and the pay in this town certainly doesn't suggest any shortage. Wonder what would happen if pay was higher here - if it would attract higher calibre employees and raise employment standards.

Before you jump on that idea, give this a read:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2 ... he-bubble/

[HP]

I still don't understand where all these tech jobs are, and the pay in this town certainly doesn't suggest any shortage. Wonder what would happen if pay was higher here - if it would attract higher calibre employees and raise employment standards.

Before you jump on that idea, give this a read:

I've been on about this before and I don't disagree with you about wages. Nothing to jump on, but I do have a couple of thoughts.

About 7 or 8 years ago, Kelowna economic development released a report on the high tech sector that made the astute observation that most (I don't remember the exact number, someplace in the 80% range) tech employees in Kelowna were working for a "lifestyle company". The term "lifestyle company" has recently been adapted for use by hot yoga studios etc but at that time the report stopped just short of defining what that meant but left enough breadcrumbs to let me use this working definition, "A lifestyle company is one which enables the owner to live the lifestyle to which they desire to become accustomed". And such is the case with small business in general.

The compelling events that drive investment for small business are much different than compelling events for companies with even 100 employees. Consider that $1/hr basically works out to $2000/yr. For every employee that a small business has to give another $1/hr... that means $2000 LESS that the owner gets to put in their pocket at the end of the year to buy the boat or new mustang or house on the lake or golf membership or whatever.

This is why I'm so hard on the tech 'industry' in Kelowna and aggressive any time anybody tells me that there's an amazing tech ecosystem here. It doesn't exist and it won't. There is nothing about Kelowna that makes it a technology incubator. What's happening, by far, in Kelowna is that priorities are strange - look after owner comes as priority #1 above growing the business in a sustainable and intelligent way.

My second point - location is immaterial in a connected world. You can pay people whatever you want in Kelowna but I can always get better talent, cheaper, someplace else and I don't need to move my company to do that.

What specific characteristics of Kelowna make it some leader on the world stage compared to ... I dunno ... silicon valley? New York? Los Angeles? Anywhere in the Scandinavian countries? How about this - India. India currently has about as many students enrolled in Engineering as babies will be born in the USA this year - and their wages are still around 40%-60% of a North American wage.

Welcome to economic reality. There is no shortage of technology workers in Kelowna. Just having the workers here will not spur any new business and this make-believe shortage isn't stopping any of the 10-12 person shops from popping in and out of existence. These business aren't closing because there is a lack of technical talent - they're being artificially buoyed by the low wages businesses are paying and failing because they have fundamentally flawed business. What these business owners want is local employees who are well trained that they can pay India wages... sorry, can't have it both ways.

[StraitTalk]

I can't say I know enough to be able to come to that same end but it makes sense if it's true, that the business models are fundamentally flawed.

What are your thoughts on outsourcing work to other locations? Is it a necessary evil (when considering the human-impact) or should it be controlled or avoided?

[neroas]

It's funny how there's various shortages and it always somehow involves college. Bottom line, colleges want to make money. And realistically if you want to make money to pay that student debt, move elsewhere to make real money.

[Atomoa]

This is why I'm so hard on the tech 'industry' in Kelowna and aggressive any time anybody tells me that there's an amazing tech ecosystem here. It doesn't exist and it won't. There is nothing about Kelowna that makes it a technology incubator. What's happening, by far, in Kelowna is that priorities are strange - look after owner comes as priority #1 above growing the business in a sustainable and intelligent way.


These business aren't closing because there is a lack of technical talent - they're being artificially buoyed by the low wages businesses are paying and failing because they have fundamentally flawed business. What these business owners want is local employees who are well trained that they can pay India wages... sorry, can't have it both ways.

This post was spot on from my experiences.

However they do have it both ways with the high and constant turnover rate and sunshine bait. Lure 'em in which isn't that hard (Kelowna appeal), work them for 2-5 years with promises that do not materialize (relates directly to putting money into the boat instead of the business) and then the discount employees leave on their own. Rinse and repeat until retirement or nepotism takes the reigns.

[Woodenhead]

This is why I'm so hard on the tech 'industry' in Kelowna and aggressive any time anybody tells me that there's an amazing tech ecosystem here. It doesn't exist and it won't. There is nothing about Kelowna that makes it a technology incubator. What's happening, by far, in Kelowna is that priorities are strange - look after owner comes as priority #1 above growing the business in a sustainable and intelligent way.


These business aren't closing because there is a lack of technical talent - they're being artificially buoyed by the low wages businesses are paying and failing because they have fundamentally flawed business. What these business owners want is local employees who are well trained that they can pay India wages... sorry, can't have it both ways.

This post was spot on from my experiences.

However they do have it both ways with the high and constant turnover rate and sunshine bait. Lure 'em in which isn't that hard (Kelowna appeal), work them for 2-5 years with promises that do not materialize (relates directly to putting money into the boat instead of the business) and then the discount employees leave on their own. Rinse and repeat until retirement or nepotism takes the reigns.

Bingo. And this kind of thing isn't just prevalent in the "tech industry" here, rather, it's how the vast majority of businesses are run in the OK.