Driverless legislation pushed

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Driverless legislation pushed

Postby ScottSA » Dec 22nd, 2017, 8:25 am

https://www.castanet.net/news/Vernon/21 ... ion-pushed

The BC Conservatives think the province should take the wheel when it comes to driverless cars.

Scott Anderson, interim leader of the BC Cons, believes British Columbia should be at the forefront of the coming transportation revolution by proactively introducing framework legislation to allow autonomous vehicles on our roads.

The party proposes legislation to allow autonomous vehicle testing on B.C. streets, similar to the legislation enacted in Ontario, but further reaching, as in the case of Virginia, where autonomous vehicles can be tested in real-world conditions.

According to Anderson, automakers and some technology companies hope to begin deploying driverless vehicles around 2020, and at least one manufacturer of light autonomous vehicles is ready for deployment as early as next year.

In terms of heavy trucking, Loblaw Companies Ltd. has already pre-ordered 25 electric self-driving trucks from Tesla. The autonomous programming software is already installed in them, but dormant because there is no legislation for its use. Meanwhile, as of 2017 33 US states have introduced autonomous vehicle legislation and 21 states have actually passed legislation related to autonomous vehicles.

"We are at the cusp of a revolution in transportation that will rival the transition from horse to automobile in importance," said Anderson. "Autonomous vehicles are coming far faster than we think, and coupled with the cheap, clean energy that Site C and other development projects will produce, these technologies will revolutionize our existence...everything from our use of streets to how we work and live will be impacted."

Autonomous vehicles are expected to save lives, lower insurance costs, and reduce injuries. Various studies have found that human error is the culprit in between 90-97 per cent of crashes, and a 2014 study found that U.S. traffic crashes cost society $836 billion annually.

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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby Jflem1983 » Dec 22nd, 2017, 9:54 am

While i support the Conservatives. This is a terrible idea .
Last thing we need is truckers being put out of work. Trucking employs half of the men in Canada. In one form or another.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby Sparki55 » Dec 22nd, 2017, 11:07 am

I am most concerned that these vehicles will cause accidents with human drivers on the road and the humans will be at fault with no evidence to support it because people will say machines are smarter than humans. What if two driverless cars get into an accident? Whose fault is it? I can guarantee the manufacturer will not be on the hook.

The decisions the program's make while on the road will only be as good as the information the sensors are able to pick up. Reading snow on the road as rain, misinterpreting poorly painted road lines, dodging a deer by driving off a cliff.

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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby Dizzy1 » Dec 22nd, 2017, 12:34 pm

Its a good thing they're looking into this now instead of waiting. As cool as it may be, we're still a long way off before people will be replaced from vehicles.

The aviation industry has been promising "pilotless" cockpits as far as I can remember, and while the technology is there, we as a society, as much as we think its a neat idea, aren't ready for it yet.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby Jlabute » Dec 22nd, 2017, 12:50 pm

Tesla does not have an autonomous driving level 5 vehicle at this time, no where near it and further to go than other players. Steering wheel optional. No manufacturer has level 5 yet.

I am curious to see how well it works on snow covered roads. If in the future truckers start losing jobs, perhaps they can take on other endeavours. This is the way of progress. I would expect the cost of transportation to maybe decrease a little too. 2020 is just a hope, and I think it is too early to work without incident.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby Verum » Dec 22nd, 2017, 1:43 pm

It's good to see some forward looking thinking is going on. Yes, drivers will lose jobs, but that's progress. It would be wrong to hold back the rest of us to keep them employed in obsolete jobs. That said, we need to provide training and other opportunities for people whose work is made redundant so that they can continue to be productive and not an unnecessary drain on the system.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby ScottSA » Dec 22nd, 2017, 7:57 pm

Thanks for all the considered and gracious replies here. For what it's worth, here are my thoughts as a layman on the points raised:

Putting people out of work - This is a very real issue, and one I am familiar with, since I own a company that at least in part depends on midweight truck transport. The easy answer is that the transition from horse to car put blacksmiths, farriers, horse trainers, carriage makers and buggy whip makers out of business as well, too bad, so sad, and here we are. A more reasonable answer is that it didn't put them out of work at all. As the transition developed, they migrated into associated trades, at first as a side project (tinkering with engines and maintenance on frequent wheel/tire failures in the early days), or they specialized, or they moved out of the trade entirely into new trades that opened up as a result of the transition. There were, for example, no such thing as gas stations pre-automobile, or car lots, or automobile factories. What did not happen, to be sure, is a mass migration to sitting around with no employment.

Not yet road ready - I'm not an engineer, so I can't speak to the level of development of AI sufficient to deploy autonomous vehicles (AV), but I do know that BMW is deploying a road ready AV in 2018, and that most other major car manufacturers are ready for deployment in 2020 (not a hoped-for event, but planned). I also can't speak to the various problems that AVs may run into in the early years of the transition, but I have to assume that the engineers building the things are aware of the problems they face and have addressed them. Besides, once there's real money to be made from AVs, you can bet there will be enormous resources poured into development. There will be laws that will seem commonsense today and ridiculous in retrospect, like the law in one of the provinces as cars were just coming online that required all automobile drivers to stop at unmarked crossroads and discharge a firearm into the air to alert horse conveyances of their presence. But I suspect we'll stumble our way through as we always do.

Society not ready for them - Maybe, but we all said that about cell phones and smart phones and computers and cars too. Go back a bit further and the same debates happened with steam engines, hot air balloons and trains. One of my earliest memories was my mother telling me that jets were dangerous and she'd rather fly in a propeller plane because the were safer and more stable. I know some folks think that no one will willingly give up driving privileges, but I'm not so sure. Would we really NOT want to work on the computer on the way to work, or catch a nap or watch a movie or read a book? Or, for that matter, speak on the phone or put makeup on or do the million and one things we actually already do while driving, but do them without fear of a ticket?

Slow transition - Maybe, but I'll go out on a limb and say there'll be a tipping point after which the floodgates open, as it did with the car. I've seen a picture of a street filled with horse-drawn carriages and one car in 1910, and the same street five - 5 - years later filled with cars and one horse buggy. Five years for the transition to happen in cities. And a few years after that it spread into the rural areas and the floodgates truly opened, with infrastructure blossoming everywhere. When we buy in to something, we do it with a vengeance.

But something we really NEED to do, whether we like the idea of AVs or not, is put a legislative framework in place sooner rather than later. AVs are here, right now, on our doorstep, and we have to deal with them.

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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby Jlabute » Dec 22nd, 2017, 9:54 pm

I am all for autonomous driving vehicles. Heck, if I ever have my license revoked, it’d be nice to know a vehicle with no steering wheel can be an option lest I use Uber forever.

In response to an autonomous BMW vehicle:
https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/25/bmw-self-driving-7-series-2021/

You won’t see anything on sale from BMW until 2021. Even then, it is only a level 3, not level 5. There are 5 levels of automation and level 4 would allow for autonomous urban ride sharing which still is not good enough for full automation. I am still saying BMW and all others have a long road ahead to reach level 4 or 5 automation. New vehicles for 2018 offer levels of assistance., level 3 at the most... maybe level 4... but you’ll have to show me a link.

https://goo.gl/images/pdpAgg

There will be a slow transition at first, the computing power to bring level 4 or 5 driving plus making it reliable for autos will add a hefty cost to a new vehicle. Plus, I like driving... it can even be fun. I’d rather drive than browse. With a level 5 vehicle, ICBC can’t hold me liable for any accident, although a level 3 or 4 vehicle, ICBC can put blame on a driver. I’ll be curious to see what transpires with insurance and laws.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby dirtybiker » Jan 31st, 2018, 1:04 pm

BUMP.

Jflem1983 wrote:Last thing we need is truckers being put out of work. Trucking employs half of the men in Canada. In one form or another.


I'll just intigrate this here.

Suncor goes Autonomous, 500 jobs gone = 100 jobs gained = 400 jobs net lost for, a start.

Good paying ones too.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3998291/driv ... or-energy/

I much as I have a distast for hoping failure at something.
I will make an exception here.

My hope is this fails in such a way as to take it right out of everyones agenda.
"Don't 'p' down my neck then tell me it's raining!"

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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby Verum » Jan 31st, 2018, 1:12 pm

dirtybiker wrote:BUMP.

Jflem1983 wrote:Last thing we need is truckers being put out of work. Trucking employs half of the men in Canada. In one form or another.


I'll just intigrate this here.

Suncor goes Autonomous, 500 jobs gone = 100 jobs gained = 400 jobs net lost for, a start.

Good paying ones too.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3998291/driv ... or-energy/

I much as I have a distast for hoping failure at something.
I will make an exception here.

My hope is this fails in such a way as to take it right out of everyones agenda.

The benefits are so great for so many businesses and the vast majority of people that even if it has a bit of a bumpy start, it will still almost certainly come to pass. It is hard to accept for those who are losing work, especially as it is unlikely that many will find similarly well compensated work with any ease, but the net benefit for society and the efficiency of our economy is far too great to ignore. If we as a country are slow to adopt this technology, we will find that other countries will gain a significant advantage over us and in the long run, all of our economy will suffer badly. We cannot afford to delay relative to others.
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." Explains why so few people reply to me, and why I might not reply
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby dirtybiker » Jan 31st, 2018, 1:19 pm

So....I guess we should just automate every job then.
Let the computers run the computers

I know, I know...Off to the Conspiracy Thread......

Guess I'm a dinosaur, I actually like to do stuff.

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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby CapitalB » Jan 31st, 2018, 2:13 pm

dirtybiker wrote:So....I guess we should just automate every job then.
Let the computers run the computers

I know, I know...Off to the Conspiracy Thread......

Guess I'm a dinosaur, I actually like to do stuff.

WALL-E !
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https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=wa ... ORM=VDRVRV


The point of automating though is so you can do more interesting things.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby dirtybiker » Jan 31st, 2018, 2:23 pm

CapitalB wrote:
The point of automating though is so you can do more interesting things.


Like forage in the wild for food and spend ones days building shelter from the
elements.
Collecting firewood for warmth.
^^^^^^^^^ dew and rain water.
etc ?
"Don't 'p' down my neck then tell me it's raining!"

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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby CapitalB » Jan 31st, 2018, 3:17 pm

dirtybiker wrote:Like forage in the wild for food and spend ones days building shelter from the
elements.
Collecting firewood for warmth.
^^^^^^^^^ dew and rain water.
etc ?


Uhh sure whatever floats your boat I guess. I mean personally I'd be happy to have extra time to spend working on projects and making things but hey if you want to go full hunter gatherer then have fun :)
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby GordonH » Jan 31st, 2018, 3:21 pm

Automation will slowly take us to that world we seen as kids on Star Trek (not out in space), here planet earth. Were money is not used (be it in form of cash, debit or credit cards).
As more & more jobs are replaced by machines...... more & more people will no longer have money.
When you have to start compromising yourself and your morals for the people around you, it’s probably time to change the people around you.

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