Driverless legislation pushed

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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby oldtrucker » Feb 14th, 2018, 1:09 pm

K...Lets try this. Anyone who thinks that we will see driverless technology anytime soon-try this:
Go get into a truck with a load of 100,000lbs,500 hp plus,1800 ft lbs plus torque, 18spd, 22 wheels plus, on the Coq.,Hwy 1 or wherever in snow,rain,fog/ ice. Heck- even nice conditions.
Get back to us when you do that. Your opinion will be 'oldtrucker',"you are crazy for doing this job" , and " no room for computers here".
Some would view my above politically incorrect opinions as 'harsh' and may even be offended by them...That should just about cover why some nations are laughing at how soft and weak we have become.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby Jonrox » Feb 14th, 2018, 1:10 pm

oldtrucker wrote:Hang on here 'Jonrox'. Do you know something that I don't about the rates going up? Hey if they are ...sign me up!

First hand knowledge. Elogs resulted in an immediate reduction in driver hours of approximately 30% across the continent (a combination of new rules and enforcement of old laws). Combine that with states actually enforcing licensing rules for Mexican drivers in the southern states and there's a tremendous shortage. The result of both things happening has resulted in significant rate increases since the elog rules took effect December 17.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby Sparki55 » Feb 14th, 2018, 1:17 pm

CapitalB wrote:Common dirty biker they already get in less accidents (Ten times less accidents than the safest demographic of human drivers BTW) than people what more do you want?


Based on perfect driving conditions. Try this in snow, rain, etc. like the other posters are suggesting!
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby oldtrucker » Feb 14th, 2018, 1:22 pm

We don't use any elogs here for Kel-Van-Kel. I know that it is being slowly implemented in some areas, but the longer companies don't have to use them, the less they will have to pay. I don't know about you, but I am rather bitter towards trucking companies using every loophole to avoid paying their employees. If the industry wants to improve safety(ya right),they should be forced to pay by the hour. If they did,having to pay overtime would encourage them to reduce the hours each driver would have to endure-improving safety. E logs won't do that.
Some would view my above politically incorrect opinions as 'harsh' and may even be offended by them...That should just about cover why some nations are laughing at how soft and weak we have become.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby CapitalB » Feb 14th, 2018, 1:24 pm

Sparki55 wrote:
CapitalB wrote:Common dirty biker they already get in less accidents (Ten times less accidents than the safest demographic of human drivers BTW) than people what more do you want?


Based on perfect driving conditions. Try this in snow, rain, etc. like the other posters are suggesting!



https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/1 ... ronto.html

That'll get some snow testing.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby CapitalB » Feb 14th, 2018, 1:30 pm

Also; Last week I watch a rocket autonomously fire up into space, and then land most of itself simultaneously back onto the launch pad. Yet so many people here constantly hur dur about driving being too hard for a computer. Rocket science, NBD driving a goddam car or truck? Naa thats too hard.

Give me a break.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby oldtrucker » Feb 14th, 2018, 1:35 pm

CapitalB wrote:Also; Last week I watch a rocket autonomously fire up into space, and then land most of itself simultaneously back onto the launch pad. Yet so many people here constantly hur dur about driving being too hard for a computer. Rocket science, NBD driving a goddam car or truck? Naa thats too hard.

Give me a break.


'CapitalB'...What class of licence do you hold? Do you have a class1,3 or any aviation licences?
Just trying to figure where you are coming from.
Some would view my above politically incorrect opinions as 'harsh' and may even be offended by them...That should just about cover why some nations are laughing at how soft and weak we have become.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby Jonrox » Feb 14th, 2018, 2:06 pm

It's perfectly natural for people to believe their job could never be taken over by technology. People also vastly underestimate what technology is capable of.

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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby CapitalB » Feb 14th, 2018, 2:20 pm

Just coming from the position of someone who stays up to date on technology and other innovations and am mostly going off what the experts developing new tech in each industry are saying. Or rather I'm going off what they're testing now, what their expected time frames for release are and adding a few years. I just have a class 5 license though my step father is a heavy duty mechanic for brand new trucks and we talk about this tech quite a bit. He thinks anything beyond 2025 for time predictions is too slow just based off whats come out in the past couple of years. (As a side note one of my favourite video games is a truck driving simulator that I play with a force feedback wheel and pedal setup. I really enjoy doing long haul deliveries through europe.)

Also this is a progressive technology, we aren't necessarily waiting for level 5 autonomous for things to take off. Level 3 and 4 vehicles, both of which are real world testing right now, will effect a great number of industries that involve driving in some ways. Even level 2 tech like the convoy systems, and gradual increases in automation from there will only make the jobs easier eventually transitioning to systems that need fewer people.

There are also a lot of other technologies related to automation (drone deliveries, 3d printing/manufacturing/ faster longer rail systems, etc) that are also going to be effecting transportation of goods.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.

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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby oldtrucker » Feb 14th, 2018, 2:50 pm

I just remembered 'Capital B'...the rockets you mentioned-1 crashed.
Yes one day perhaps a computer will be able to "feel" where the gravel is under a snow layer to get traction before spinout, feel how to feather a throttle, anticipate a fraction of a percent change in the slope grade. As I said before ,a computer cannot know when and be able to put chains on.( I hate chaining up) It wont know when a strap is loose and about to be pulled under a axle. A gizzilion things that can/will happen that a computer can't deal with or do.
A computer can analyze a plumbing problem-but the problem will still need a plumber to fix that problem.
Some would view my above politically incorrect opinions as 'harsh' and may even be offended by them...That should just about cover why some nations are laughing at how soft and weak we have become.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby Jonrox » Feb 14th, 2018, 2:58 pm

oldtrucker wrote:I just remembered 'Capital B'...the rockets you mentioned-1 crashed.
Yes one day perhaps a computer will be able to "feel" where the gravel is under a snow layer to get traction before spinout, feel how to feather a throttle, anticipate a fraction of a percent change in the slope grade. As I said before ,a computer cannot know when and be able to put chains on.( I hate chaining up) It wont know when a strap is loose and about to be pulled under a axle. A gizzilion things that can/will happen that a computer can't deal with or do.
A computer can analyze a plumbing problem-but the problem will still need a plumber to fix that problem.

A computer can already do those things. A computer can know all of those things and can know them better than a human can. Oldtrucker, I respect your experience in the industry but it seems you're vastly underestimating what the technology is already capable of.

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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby Verum » Feb 14th, 2018, 3:02 pm

oldtrucker wrote:K...Lets try this. Anyone who thinks that we will see driverless technology anytime soon-try this:
Go get into a truck with a load of 100,000lbs,500 hp plus,1800 ft lbs plus torque, 18spd, 22 wheels plus, on the Coq.,Hwy 1 or wherever in snow,rain,fog/ ice. Heck- even nice conditions.
Get back to us when you do that. Your opinion will be 'oldtrucker',"you are crazy for doing this job" , and " no room for computers here".

If I did have the reaction "you are crazy for doing this job", I would certainly not have the response "no room for computers here". If anything, I would want greater driver aids to make your job safer, to the point where the need for human involvement reduced to minimal and eventually made obsolete. Any repetitive task is ripe for automation and it is hard for those who are not familiar with the state of the art in machine learning to grasp how far along things have come. Computers already do many tasks we used to think were almost impossible to automate. Transportation is a trillion dollar industry World wide and a very large source of cost is human labour costs. It only makes sense that the industry is trying to cut those costs. Imagine trucks being able to drive for almost all 24 hours, being much cheaper per hour as no expensive drivers, fewer accidents, etc. It will take longer to happen in the most challenging areas, but it will happen and it will make good cheaper for all. This is how capitalism works.

Here's a link to a cartoon (from a nerd's nerd) from 4 years ago, hover over the image and read the text:
https://xkcd.com/1425/
So, a task set 50+ years ago, which 4 years ago looked almost impossible is actually fairly doable these days. Google already has an API (interface for programs/apps to use to perform some actions) for this and it can do a lot more than that cartoon was asking:
https://cloud.google.com/vision/
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." Explains why so few people reply to me, and why I might not reply

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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby CapitalB » Feb 14th, 2018, 3:08 pm

oldtrucker wrote:I just remembered 'Capital B'...the rockets you mentioned-1 crashed.


Thats why I said landed most of itself*

Though I do feel obliged to point out that before the automated landing system 100% percent of all rocket pieces crashed. Now spacex has dropped that number to something like 1/5 of rockets crash and they're still being dragged down by all their testing crashes.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby gman313 » Feb 14th, 2018, 3:08 pm

oldtrucker wrote:I just remembered 'Capital B'...the rockets you mentioned-1 crashed.
Yes one day perhaps a computer will be able to "feel" where the gravel is under a snow layer to get traction before spinout, feel how to feather a throttle, anticipate a fraction of a percent change in the slope grade. As I said before ,a computer cannot know when and be able to put chains on.( I hate chaining up) It wont know when a strap is loose and about to be pulled under a axle. A gizzilion things that can/will happen that a computer can't deal with or do.
A computer can analyze a plumbing problem-but the problem will still need a plumber to fix that problem.


you are sadly mistaking if you truly believe that.
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Re: Driverless legislation pushed

Postby oldtrucker » Feb 14th, 2018, 3:28 pm

B-777 doesn't 'feel' ground effect and ballooning before touchdown-it is a controlled rate of decent and a controlled crash onto the runway.A computer doesn't feel. Explain to me how this technology would address the issues I have listed above.The loose strap,putting the chains on at the right time. As I said and if you can't drive the thing yourself, go on a trip with somebody on the Coq.-only then will you get it.How would a computer replace a plumber or any other trade that needs human perception and 'feel'. The only way is a super high tech mobile robot with hands and a brain that is better than human. The human brain is still considered the most complicated object in the known universe.
For the record...to anyone reading this..I ,'oldtrucker' challenge any self driving truck to a skill contest. I'll even chain it up for you when it spins out. I will also challenge any autoland feature to see who can do the best grease on a runway.
My cards are on the table...lets see yours.
Some would view my above politically incorrect opinions as 'harsh' and may even be offended by them...That should just about cover why some nations are laughing at how soft and weak we have become.
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