Is solar a good option?

[I Think]

Donald asks;

But if you already have a source of daily 24 hour electricity why would you want batteries.

Donald the link I posted for you yesterday, explains how using a battery bank charged at night using lower cost electricity can be used in the day to offset the use of peak power peak cost electricity.

Wether these batts work well with solar is not of a great importance in bc, solar is probably never going to be a viable option where the grid is available in bc.
Solar works beautifully in the south, and electricity is very cheap to ship to any place in North America.

[Smurf]

I think wrote:

Solar works beautifully in the south, and electricity is very cheap to ship to any place in North America.

I hope you don't think I am going after you , but I have to keep questioning some of the things you say. Electricity can be moved around North America but not as cheap as you would think. Power distribution is expensive and costly to maintain. That is one of the reasons Manitoba Hydro went to DC transmission from northern to southern Manitoba. The cost of the extra copper, poles, line losses etc were worth turning to DC even with the huge costs of inversion and conversion of the power. It is distribution costs that are one of the reasons we sell power cheaper to other power companies than to our own customers. To make our power viable we have to make it cheap enough for them to e able to cover the other costs involved.

[Donald G]

Unread postby I Think » Yesterday, 8:13 pm

Solar works beautifully in the south, and electricity is very cheap to ship to any place in North America.

I would be opposed to BC buying electricity from outside of BC, especially from outside Canada since comparably inexpensive electricity from hydro projects is one of the main reasons that BC has maintained a business edge on places with higher energy costs.

Especially with the 31% higher American dollar at the moment.

[I Think]

The Economics of Electricity Transmission

Transmission makes up roughly 11 percent of the total cost of electricity. In 2012, the Energy Information Administration estimated that transmission cost 1.1 cents/kilowatt-hour (kWh), out of the average electricity price of 9.8 cents/kWh.[20]

Although transmission represents a small portion of the overall cost of electricity, building and expanding the electricity transmission infrastructure is expensive. The transmission system’s size and complexity are significant barriers to entry for new companies, owing to the massive initial capital investment needed to transmit power. Transmission projects cost hundreds of millions of dollars and require long lead times and many right-of-way easements.[21]

http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/e ... #Economics

[Donald G]

BC has sold millions of dollars in electrical energy to California in the past. Not sure about other States.

According to the following article Canada has sold BILLIONS of dollars in Hydro Electricity to the USA ..

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=21992

[GrooveTunes]

Ineresting...http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Solar-Panel-Too-Much-Power-Energy-Retailer-323024971.html

[Smurf]

As I have said before Manitoba Hydro has paid for large portions of it's recent stations and infrastructure by obtaining long term solid sales to the US. When I say it is not cheap I didn't say it wasn't viable if you can sell it cheap enough to be competitive. They set these contracts up so that the new dam is at least partially paid off by the time they need all the production. Brilliant idea that is keeping their power rates low. You just have to find the buyers that will sign good long term contracts. I do not know if anything like this might be in the future for site C but it could.

Sorry for getting away off topic.

[I Think]

While cheap oil may not be able to slow the pace of renewable electricity, it can take a toll on the electric car market. Last year, sales of sport utility vehicles and pickup trucks skyrocketed in the U.S. as the price per barrel of oil dripped ever lower. Electric cars, by contrast, saw static sales growth and difficult headwinds as automakers struggled to overcome the thing that has long dogged the sustainable transportation industry: short-term thinking.

Though self-driving technology won most of the attention at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas earlier this month, car companies debuted an array of electric concept vehicles. One, Chevrolet's roughly $30,000 Bolt, could be the first mainstream electric car cheap enough for average consumers to afford. In a market dominated by luxury players like Tesla Motors -- which has promised a cheaper Model 3 sometime in the next few years -- the Bolt is a welcome entrant.

"If gas was $5 a gallon now, would a car like the Bolt be appealing to an even larger percentage of the U.S. population? Absolutely," Karl Brauer, a senior analyst at the automotive research firm Kelley Blue Book, told HuffPost by phone on Tuesday.

Adding a lower-cost tier to the electric car industry might be the one thing that drowns out oil for good. Brauer said he expects more electric cars to enter the mass market over the next two years.

"It's all going to come together timing-wise about when it should," Brauer said. "The price of fuel and oil will become a secondary issue, at best."

[Smurf]

One thing is for sure, if the electric vehicle market ever grows substantially we will need more power production. it might even be an opening for smaller home solar units with battery storage. However the price of both would have to drop substantially for the average person to afford that. Very few people actually have that kind of money to put into something like that.

[maple leaf]

Construction completed on Canada’s largest solar project
100 megawatt Grand Renewable Solar to power 17,000 Ontario homes

Cleantech Canada

August 4, 2015

The 100 megawatt project uses 445,000 high-performance solar modules and will pwoer 17,000 homes. PHOTO: CNW Group/s2e Technologies
The 100 megawatt project uses 445,000 high-performance solar modules and will pwoer 17,000 homes. PHOTO: CNW Group/s2e Technologies
ST JACOBS, Ont—The largest contiguous solar farm in Canada, and one of the largest in North America has been completed, and has begun producing electricity for Ontario’s power grid.

The 100 megawatt Grand Renewable Solar Project, located Haldimand County, Ont., has ability to power approximately 17,000 homes in the province. It incorporates 445,000 high-performance solar modules, covering 736 Ontario acres and is Canada’s largest photovoltaic project.

The project was developed in partnership by Samsung Renewable Energy, Connor Clark & Lunn Infrastructure and Six Nations of the Grand River. S2E Technologies also played a role in facilitating an agreement between these major shareholders in the project and the engineering, procurement and construction provider, Canadian Solar Inc.

“Samsung and our partners are proud to complete this fourth project under our Green Energy Investment Agreement with the government of Ontario,” Shin Kim, CEO of Samsung C&T, said. “This project is now producing one hundred megawatts of clean energy, and has created hundreds of high-skilled jobs and millions of dollars in community investment, all of which are benefiting real people in Haldimand and across the province.”

Samsung noted Grand Renewable Solar will offset approximately 162,000 tonnes of CO2, compared to coal generation, the equivalent of taking 29,610 cars off the roads.

The solar power generated at GRS will be sold to the Ontario Power Authority under a power purchase agreement.

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[maple leaf]

Largest solar project in B.C. begins operations
1.05 megawatt project begins pumping energy into province's power grid

Cleantech Canada

July 30, 2015
by Cleantech Canada Staff

The largest solar project B.C. has commenced operations. PHOTO: CNW Group/City of Kimberley
The largest solar project B.C. has commenced operations. PHOTO: CNW Group/City of Kimberley
KIMBERLEY, BC—The City of Kimberley has announced the SunMine solar project is commercially operational. The 1.05 megawatt facility is B.C.’s first grid-connected solar project, as well as being Canada’s largest project to use solar trackers.

SunMine consists of 4,032 solar-cell modules mounted on 96 trackers which follow the sun’s movement, thereby maximizing solar exposure. The German-engineered trackers provide as much as 38 per cent more energy than a fixed system. The trackers capitalize on the electricity generated during the morning and evening, peak demand times when BC Hydro has the greatest need for electricity and pays a premium for it.

Production data since June 22nd confirms that the energy being generated by SunMine is exceeding the modeled design potential.

“SunMine is a great example of the resiliency of our community. We are thriving and pursuing new and innovative directions,” Kimberley Mayor, Don McCormick, said.

And even though the project just reached operation, McCormick is already aiming for more.

“Although SunMine is the largest solar facility in BC, it is relatively small,” he said. “As the SunMine proves its potential, the City of Kimberley is looking to expand it and have already had several inquiries from prospective partners.”

SunMine is supplying enough electricity to the BC Hydro grid to power approximately 200 homes.
http://www.canadianmanufacturing.com/te ... ns-152142/

[JagXKR]

SunMine is one of the only things they could do with that site. The ground is highly contaminated and 4 people died in 2006 around the old Sullivan mine from lack of oxygen. There may be many other sites in BC that are as equally dangerous that we could put solar farms. They sure won't be near any houses and the land is almost useless.
As for the 17000 homes in Ontario it sure sounds like a lot until you do the math. There are 4,887,510 homes there so that would make it 0.347% which is squiddly dot.

[maple leaf]

SunMine is one of the only things they could do with that site. The ground is highly contaminated and 4 people died in 2006 around the old Sullivan mine from lack of oxygen. There may be many other sites in BC that are as equally dangerous that we could put solar farms. They sure won't be near any houses and the land is almost useless.
As for the 17000 homes in Ontario it sure sounds like a lot until you do the math. There are 4,887,510 homes there so that would make it 0.347% which is squiggly dot.

That might be squiggly dot today ,but it wasn't very long ago there wasn't even squiggly dot ,but as solar technology advances and gets better and costs come down as they have continually been doing,what is squiggly dot today is only the beginning as the industry grows in technology and costs drop .

[Donald G]

by maple leaf » Yesterday, 6:39 pm

JagXKR wrote:
SunMine is one of the only things they could do with that site. The ground is highly contaminated and 4 people died in 2006 around the old Sullivan mine from lack of oxygen. There may be many other sites in BC that are as equally dangerous that we could put solar farms. They sure won't be near any houses and the land is almost useless.
As for the 17000 homes in Ontario it sure sounds like a lot until you do the math. There are 4,887,510 homes there so that would make it 0.347% which is squiggly dot.


That might be squiggly dot today ,but it wasn't very long ago there wasn't even squiggly dot ,but as solar technology advances and gets better and costs come down as they have continually been doing,what is squiggly dot today is only the beginning as the industry grows in technology and costs drop .

If the "Solar Option" ever reaches the point of being cost comparable to hydro produced electricity for large amounts of electricity AND Canada had more hours of daylight and high intensity sunlight the idea would be worth looking at. But until that happens hydro electricity is still, by far, the best answer.

[Smurf]

Lets see 100 MW as compared to site C at 1,100 MW's. That means you would need about 11 of those projects to produce the same power. I had trouble finding a true cost for the project, but did find this:

http://www.stantec.com/our-work/project ... qowbPkrJD8

When Ontario’s Feed-In Tariff program was announced, developers from around the world took note, and many wanted to participate in offsetting coal generation with green power. Samsung proposed plans for the $7 billion, 250 MW Grand Renewable Energy Park, North America’s largest wind and solar energy cluster. Combining 150 MW of wind and 100 MW of solar photovoltaic generation, the project will power over 25,000 homes in Ontario with green energy. Stantec was selected to provide integral services to this landmark development based on our ability to tackle world class projects, and redefine industry benchmarks.

So lets say the solar portion costs $2,500.000.00 which would be $27,500,000.00 for an equal amount of power. Site C is projected to cost $8,300,000.00. Lets double that, $16,600,000.00, much cheaper. Makes solar look pretty expensive for something that can only produce part time and has a short life span. Falls right in line with what I have been saying about current solar technology.

Lets take the whole project and compare solar and wind to Hydro. 250 MW's would work out to about 4.3 times at 7 billion each or about 30.1 billion, give or take a few hundred million. Looks like I have been saying all along, wind and solar have a long way to go before being competitive with hydro. Along with that the short life span and the pollution caused to build the equipment, batteries etc. puts hydro miles ahead.

In my mind solar has a few spots but still has a long way to go. I do agree as they say it is better than coal

Samsung noted Grand Renewable Solar will offset approximately 162,000 tonnes of CO2, compared to coal generation, the equivalent of taking 29,610 cars off the roads.

but not the best for someone with our resources.