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John 4:20

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John 4:20

Postby sophiexfox » Nov 20th, 2012, 10:32 pm

John 4:20

Those who say, “I love God,” yet hate their brothers or sisters, are liars; for those who do not love a brother or sister whom they have seen, cannot love God whom they have not seen. The commandment we have from him is this: those who love God must love their brothers and sisters also.

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Lets discuss this...

When I read the bible this line really stood out for me. These are words in red! From Jesus himself! And there are no tricky words or metaphors. To me it's very clear. God has commanded his followers not to hate.

So why is it that this is such a neglected commandment?


Religious people and Christians specifically are notorious for being hateful of those who don't conform. I'm sure no one will disagree the Spanish Inquisition was motivated by hatred....

They tell homosexuals that they are not complete people, they lie to themselves and the ones they love, and are evil and immoral. They even go as far as to campaign against these peoples humans rights. Nothing but hatred motivates that.

They campaign to remove women rights. As they'd rather see a women die then have an abortion. They think rape is a blessing and women should be forced to carry their rape baby to full term. I can't see that as being anything but hateful.

And lets not forget the hatred people of other religions feel. The Muslim community is probably the most persecuted. You can't say you love god, but hate 1/3 of the people in the world that believe in that very same god.

...and that's just a few hot topics I can think of...

i'm sure ya'll hate me after reading this. Point proven? Hehe we'll see what the replies look like =O
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Re: John 4:20

Postby Glacier » Nov 21st, 2012, 12:10 am

I don't believe this commandment is neglected by so many. Rather, people have a poor understand of what hate means. For example, you say that the Muslim community is probably the most persecuted. LOL, only if you are talking about in Muslim countries were they have killed most of the Jews, Christians, atheists, and any other non-Muslims, leaving only Muslims left for further persecution.

To disagree with someone is NOT hate. I do not hate Muslims, but I strongly disagree with many Islamic teachings including Sharia Law, and I would oppose any attempt to bring in Sharia into Canada such as we see being done in Europe. I do not want female genital mutilation, honor killings, or 53 year olds marrying 6 year old girls in this country thank you very much. This does not mean I hate Muslims.

Almost anyone who speaks out strongly against Islam including atheists such as Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Pat Condell are not doing it because they hate. Far from it, in fact. If you want to see what hate really looks like I recommend reading A God Who Hates by Wafa Sultan.
Last edited by Glacier on Nov 21st, 2012, 10:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: John 4:20

Postby cutter7 » Nov 21st, 2012, 8:26 am

Thanks for the post sophie, although I disagree with your spin of the verse I thank you for posting it.

The bible teaches us we will be judged by our own actions and posts like yours make me reflect on my own behavior towards other people.
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Re: John 4:20

Postby Hmmm » Nov 21st, 2012, 8:53 am

Amos 15:5“Hate what is bad and love what is good, and establish what is just among you.” This verse helps us to appreciate, its the behavior that is to be hated and not the person. God does in fact love everyone but does not love everyone's actions.
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Re: John 4:20

Postby zzontar » Nov 21st, 2012, 9:53 am

A good rule of thumb as far as the bible goes is anything written that goes against any particular individual or group of people is most likely made up by an individual or group of people.
They say you can't believe everything they say.
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Re: John 4:20

Postby WhatThe » Nov 21st, 2012, 10:52 am

Blah blah blah religious nonsense. Don't hate me for saying it. If religious folk had a little more faith in your gods you wouldn't be sticking your noses in others business, like hating/moving against/discriminating other religions or gays or or basically anyone that disagrees with your religion. Because I thought he was the judge yet all you religious folks do is judge, or worse actually maim, kill or otherwise harm. Can't help but feel youre all hypocrites.

Yes it's a very wide paintbrush I'm using and I intended to.
Our problem is that people are obedient all over the world in the face of poverty and starvation, and war, and cruelty. People are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves, while the grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem.
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Re: John 4:20

Postby cutter7 » Nov 21st, 2012, 11:18 am

WhatThe wrote:Blah blah blah religious nonsense. Don't hate me for saying it. If religious folk had a little more faith in your gods you wouldn't be sticking your noses in others business, like hating/moving against/discriminating other religions or gays or or basically anyone that disagrees with your religion. Because I thought he was the judge yet all you religious folks do is judge, or worse actually maim, kill or otherwise harm. Can't help but feel youre all hypocrites.

Yes it's a very wide paintbrush I'm using and I intended to.


so..... Why are you visiting religious threads? Is there something positive you want to contribute? or do you just like to poke sticks at people?
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Re: John 4:20

Postby WhatThe » Nov 21st, 2012, 11:23 am

Why you ask? The question is don't hate people yet that's all religious people do. Huh, go figure?
Our problem is that people are obedient all over the world in the face of poverty and starvation, and war, and cruelty. People are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves, while the grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem.
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Re: John 4:20

Postby cutter7 » Nov 21st, 2012, 11:36 am

WhatThe wrote:Why you ask? The question is don't hate people yet that's all religious people do. Huh, go figure?



I ask only because I am curious why non religious people feel the need to visit religious threads and spew venom.

Do you need a hug? maybe try to focus more on the scriptures instead of people who misinterpret them.. you are behaving the same as the people you condemn.
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Re: John 4:20

Postby ukcanuck » Nov 21st, 2012, 11:37 am

Glacier wrote:I don't believe this commandment is neglected by so many. Rather, people have a poor understand of what hate means.

I think every human being has a very clear understanding of what hate is, as they do know what love is and right and wrong. It's truth and fiction that people have difficulty with.

For example, you say that the Muslim community is probably the most persecuted. LOL, only if you are talking about in Muslim countries were they have killed most of the Jews, Christians, atheists, and any other non-Muslims, leaving only Muslims left for further persecution.
a seriously vague statement, who said they were the most persecuted? and where are you talking about? I'd say Muslims as with any other religion are treated well enough in religiously tolerant societies. In non Tolerant countries its not only religious rights but civil rights that are being abused.
In Muslim countries it seems ridiculous that they would persecute themselves???

To disagree with someone is NOT hate. I do not hate Muslims, but I strongly disagree with many Islamic teachings including Sharia Law, and I would oppose any attempt to bring in Sharia into Canada such as we see being done in Europe. I do not want female genital mutilation, honor killings, or 53 year olds marrying 6 year old girls in this country thank you very much. This does not mean I hate Muslims.

Hate comes in many forms including prejudice wouldn't you say?


Almost anyone who speaks out strongly against Islam including atheists such as Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Pat Condell are not doing it because they hate. Far from it, in fact. If you want to see what hate really looks like I recommend reading A God Who Hates by Wafa Sultan.

Anyone who understands the meaning behind John 4:20 would not up publicly denounce his brother for anything. Instead he would reach out with the love that their father gave them and seek to understand his brother

There is a reason blood is thicker than water and why Jesus refers to us as brothers and sisters .
If only we really treated each other like blood relatives..
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Re: John 4:20

Postby ukcanuck » Nov 21st, 2012, 11:42 am

cutter7 wrote:
WhatThe wrote:Why you ask? The question is don't hate people yet that's all religious people do. Huh, go figure?



I ask only because I am curious why non religious people feel the need to visit religious threads and spew venom.

Do you need a hug? maybe try to focus more on the scriptures instead of people who misinterpret them.. you are behaving the same as the people you condemn.

Lol look at his avatar you're speaking to the devil...
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Re: John 4:20

Postby Glacier » Nov 21st, 2012, 8:50 pm

ukcanuck wrote: a seriously vague statement, who said they were the most persecuted?

Did you read the OP? If so, read it a little closer.

ukcanuck wrote:Anyone who understands the meaning behind John 4:20 would not up publicly denounce his brother for anything. Instead he would reach out with the love that their father gave them and seek to understand his brother

One of my favourite writers, Leland Stowe, tried to publicly warn everyone that Hitler was going to try and take over the world. The New York paper he worked for refused to publish his writings, so in 1933 he published his writings in a book called, "Nazi Germany Means War." Was his motive hate? No, he was motivated by love for his fellow "brothers" and "sisters."

The son of God, Yeshua ben Joseph, publicly denounced the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. Was he motivated by hate? No, he was motivated by love for mankind.

Dutch Parliamentarian Geert Wilders has publicly warned of Islam with his video Fitna and more recently in his book Marked for Death. Jesus' public criticisms of the Pharisees got him crucified, and similarly, Wilders cannot be seen in public and needs 24 our police protection because of the threats on his life. He is not motivated by hate, but rather love for his fellow countrymen.

ETA: Yes Muslims beat up on each other just as Christians in Ireland have beaten up on each other. Anyone in the Arab world who expresses any sort of criticism of their government's action against Israel is marked for death.
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Re: John 4:20

Postby coffeeFreak » Nov 21st, 2012, 9:33 pm

I have heard some Christians interpret this to mean to love their brothers and sisters "in Christ", as in only Christians.
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Re: John 4:20

Postby sophiexfox » Nov 21st, 2012, 9:38 pm

cutter7 wrote:Thanks for the post sophie, although I disagree with your spin of the verse I thank you for posting it.

The bible teaches us we will be judged by our own actions and posts like yours make me reflect on my own behavior towards other people.

This response confuses me.... What spin? Do you disagree with my interpretation of the verse? Because honestly it's one of the more blatant and clear lines in the whole book....
Or is it that you disagree that Religious people hate homosexuals, abortions and Muslims?

I am very glad my post has cause some inner reflection. If every religious person in this world where Christ-like and not just 'Christians' we would be in a much better place then we are now. I'd be so disappointed if you let your hatred control you, and you end up like these poor souls....

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Hmmm wrote:Amos 15:5“Hate what is bad and love what is good, and establish what is just among you.” This verse helps us to appreciate, its the behavior that is to be hated and not the person. God does in fact love everyone but does not love everyone's actions.

Get the **** out of here with that.
Every single time I quote the old testament to prove a point against your religion, I get yelled 'BUT THAT'S THE OLD TESTAMENT - THAT DOESN'T MATTER'
Even though it's clearly a flawed and ignorant retort, I am going to have to fire this one back at you guys.

Afterall; The line I am referring is red words from Jesus himself!!

Far more important then ramblings from the same series of books that brought us brilliant stories from 'god' such as the one about the 40 some-odd children being brutally massacred by a bear for them mocking a bald prophet.


Glacier wrote:I don't believe this commandment is neglected by so many. Rather, people have a poor understand of what hate means.

What an incredibly evil statement.
So you don't try to deny the hatred in your heart....You instead try to justify your hatred...
...Interesting....

Glacier wrote:For example, you say that the Muslim community is probably the most persecuted. LOL, only if you are talking about in Muslim countries were they have killed most of the Jews, Christians, atheists, and any other non-Muslims, leaving only Muslims left for further persecution.

Don't think for a second I am pro-muslim.
But in their defense, if you people are allow to live your life and impose your beliefs onto the world around you because of a book written in the stone ages, then why aren't Muslims?
What makes your god any less ridiculous then theirs?

The teachings of Mohammad are very hateful. No one is denying this. But since Jesus is your prophet, and one who very plainly preaches against hate, using the argument "well they're WORSE" really isn't going to fly. I don't think god cares that you look better by comparison. You are still not obeying!!
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Re: John 4:20

Postby Glacier » Nov 21st, 2012, 11:06 pm

sophiexfox wrote:If every religious person in this world where Christ-like and not just 'Christians' we would be in a much better place then we are now.

Amen to that!

Not sure what you are talking about "an evil statement" though. Like all commandments, John 4:20 is, of course, neglected by some. All I was trying to say is that the "God Hates Fags" types are a minority, and I don't believe in targeting everyone with the same brush.
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants."
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