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Evolution or Creation?

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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby janalta » Jan 30th, 2013, 5:31 pm

Hmmm wrote: if you gave an amazing, very valuable gift to someone you loved, would you want them to appreciate you for it? Would it be ok to say, I don't know how it got here but lets just enjoy it and forget about how we got it? There is your answer.


You're assuming the earth was a gift to us from someone. I don't see it that way....that someone or something 'gave' the earth to humans to inhabit...therefore your question is completely irrelevant.

We are but a tiny speck in the universe...how can anyone imagine that humans are important enough in the grand scheme of things that this was all a gift for us????
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby janalta » Jan 30th, 2013, 5:33 pm

zzontar wrote:
It's probably just as hard for some to believe a bunch of identical Higgs particles which decay almost instantly when they collide with anything could eventually become everything in the universe.


That would be something you'd have to take up with the molecular scientists and physicists who are studying it.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby Hmmm » Jan 30th, 2013, 6:20 pm

janalta wrote:
You're assuming the earth was a gift to us from someone. I don't see it that way....that someone or something 'gave' the earth to humans to inhabit...therefore your question is completely irrelevant.

The question is important to ask though. One should not assume either way but instead should try to seek the answer, never just say oh well. If we have been created and were given the Earth from our creator, then giving him credit is important. But I will restate, one should ask and seek the answer and not dismiss it as irrelevant.

I should add, that for myself, I did ask and I did find. I have seen evidence of God in my life daily and I am well acquainted with first hand experiences to numerous to dismiss as chance.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby janalta » Jan 30th, 2013, 7:04 pm

Hmmm wrote:The question is important to ask though. One should not assume either way but instead should try to seek the answer, never just say oh well. If we have been created and were given the Earth from our creator, then giving him credit is important. But I will restate, one should ask and seek the answer and not dismiss it as irrelevant.

I should add, that for myself, I did ask and I did find. I have seen evidence of God in my life daily and I am well acquainted with first hand experiences to numerous to dismiss as chance.


It's not so important to those of us who do not believe it to be true...for us, it is irrelevant.
You choose to believe that the earth is a gift to you , given by the being that created it...so for you it is relevant.

I do not feel the need, nor the desire to ask an imaginary being to answer questions for me.
I do not thank something I do not believe in for the things around me.
I have seen zero evidence of god...none, nadda, zip.

That does not mean I take the world for granted....not at all. I find it an amazing, breathtaking, beautiful place. I look up at the stars in wonder....not because of a creator, but because it is an incredible sight.
The world around us is miraculous...but only because of the wonders of nature itself. It has evolved and changed and adapted for millions of years to become what we see today. It wasn't 'built or created' as you now see it. Continents have shifted, ice has covered it and receded, temperatures change, species evolve to their changing environment.
It is wonderous....but one does not need religion or spirituality to appreciate it all.

I don't need to question who, how or why...but am happy just to take it all in.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby zzontar » Jan 31st, 2013, 11:25 am

janalta wrote:I have seen zero evidence of god...none, nadda, zip.



This doesn't mean there isn't one. There are many people who have had personal experiences but as they are personal, it's virtually impossible to prove them and they remain theoretical. The same stands for studying things like deja vues, there are just theories.

http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/quest ... ja-vu-work

Déjà vu is extremely difficult to study because it occurs briefly, unannounced, only in certain people, and has no witnesses or physical manifestations other than the person saying, "Hey, déjà vu!" Because of this, there is little firm research and no definitive explanations.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby cliffy1 » Jan 31st, 2013, 11:43 am

zzontar wrote:This doesn't mean there isn't one. There are many people who have had personal experiences but as they are personal, it's virtually impossible to prove them and they remain theoretical. The same stands for studying things like deja vues, there are just theories.

Not even people who believe in gawd agree what gawd is. There are thousand of different ways of viewing gawd. It is a very personal experience. I think what most people who don't believe have a problem with, is the one portrayed in the bible. That dude needs anger management as well as a good therapist.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby fluffy » Jan 31st, 2013, 4:12 pm

Good point cliffy1. It's like hardline atheists are choosing not to believe in a god that only the hardline fundamentalists believe in. There are plenty of gods that are much easier to get along with, gods that don't strain ones relationship with scientific fact.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby zzontar » Jan 31st, 2013, 5:05 pm

cliffy1 wrote:Not even people who believe in gawd agree what gawd is. There are thousand of different ways of viewing gawd. It is a very personal experience. I think what most people who don't believe have a problem with, is the one portrayed in the bible. That dude needs anger management as well as a good therapist.


Ever fish for the awd cawd with a rawd? :200: Anyway, maybe the dude doesn't need anger management because as you see the people who should be getting stricken down left and right as people portrayed in the bible aren't being stricken down. That would be the first clue that if there is a dude, it's not the one they portrayed as needing anger management.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby janalta » Jan 31st, 2013, 6:18 pm

zzontar wrote:This doesn't mean there isn't one. There are many people who have had personal experiences but as they are personal, it's virtually impossible to prove them and they remain theoretical. The same stands for studying things like deja vues, there are just theories.


I was actually responding to hhhmmm's post, as he stated he believed the earth was a gift from god...and he had proof of his existance through his own experiences.

What one person thinks is 'proof' of god...another may think is karma, fate, a coincidence...or just that sometimes - shiat happens
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby janalta » Jan 31st, 2013, 6:32 pm

-fluffy- wrote:Good point cliffy1. It's like hardline atheists are choosing not to believe in a god that only the hardline fundamentalists believe in. There are plenty of gods that are much easier to get along with, gods that don't strain ones relationship with scientific fact.


Not true...a hardline athiest doesn't believe in the existance of any sort of god or god like figures...period. Doesn't matter what religion or what form this god takes. There is no god, no gods...period, end of story. That's what makes a hardline athiest, a hardline athiest.

I most certainly would not consider myself a 'hardline athiest'...by definition, I suppose I'm more of an agnostic.
That said, I have a very hard time buying the notion of any sort of god or creator.
If someone comes up with actual proof one day...cool. If not....that's cool too. Science, nature, history, the universe are interesting and fascinating enough on their own without having to figure out how or why it started.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby Nebula » Jan 31st, 2013, 6:33 pm

Perhaps god created evolution.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby cliffy1 » Jan 31st, 2013, 7:00 pm

Nebula wrote:Perhaps god created evolution.

And perhaps god is evolving with everything else.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby jennylives » Jan 31st, 2013, 7:25 pm

Nebula wrote:Perhaps god created evolution.


It is a reasonable way to reconcile evolution with faith. Even the last few popes acknowledge evolution is fact.

We know enough about evolution now that if you dispute it is because you don't understand it. Should evidence turn up to support a new theory we would look into that, as science is intended for, but that's not currently happening.

We can trace exactly how different species are interconnected biologically through their DNA which we can follow back in time to now extinct creatures. We have observed it occurring (look into the Lenski E.Coli experiments). We have put our knowledge to practical use and there is a whole branch of medicine focused on it (which is why flu shots are different each year). The debate is over.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 2nd, 2013, 1:09 am

jennylives wrote:We know enough about evolution now that if you dispute it is because you don't understand it.
<snip>
The debate is over.

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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby fluffy » Feb 2nd, 2013, 7:45 am

jennylives wrote:The debate is over.


What a relief. The last few centuries have really worn the topic to a thin strand. :127:
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