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Evolution or Creation?

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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby GIS_Dude » Feb 2nd, 2013, 9:54 am

The entire debate over creation vs evolution, god vs not etc etc is a simple excercise in human narcissism & vanity.

In fifty million years give or take, the parasitic scourge that is humanity today will be nothing more than a layer in the earth's crust...end of story. Mother nature or whatever handle you want to assign to the forces in our universe, will annahilate the human species by necessity because we are simply too stupid to control our own population growth and keep it within the sustainable limits of the rock we live on, thus contaminating the very environment we need to survive by consuming all possible forms of energy, natural resources, clean air & water etc until all there is left is several billion of us wandering around in our own waste. This planet has successfully regenerated itself many times over and will continue to do so in a cosmic time frame that is simply beyond our capacity to understand given that we truly believe we are the super species. Our entire history on this planet, whether you believe it to be 5000 or 5 million years is but a blink of an eye in the big picture. A similar time frame for comparison would be the almost instantaneous appearance of a mushroom in your lawn overnight followed by decay and back to whence it came within a couple more days.

We seriously need to get over ourselves...we are simply not that important in the big scheme of things.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby steven lloyd » Feb 2nd, 2013, 10:30 am

GIS_Dude wrote: In fifty million years give or take, the parasitic scourge that is humanity today will be nothing more than a layer in the earth's crust...end of story. Mother nature or whatever handle you want to assign to the forces in our universe, will annahilate the human species by necessity because we are simply too stupid to control our own population growth and keep it within the sustainable limits of the rock we live on, ....

And due to our arrogant short-sightedness and our apparent inability to recongize our collective state we could very well still be bound to the confines of this rock.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby Boda » Feb 2nd, 2013, 12:29 pm

[quote="steven lloydAnd due to our arrogant short-sightedness and our apparent inability to recongize our collective state we could very well still be bound to the confines of this rock.[/quote]


What perspectives of our inability to recognize our collective state contributes to being bound to the confines of this rock?

Edited for grammar
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby fluffy » Feb 2nd, 2013, 12:47 pm

I think I could take a stab at that. Continuing practices that are unsustainable in regard to environmental, economic and social issues will shift our focus from the search for new knowledge and skills increasingly towards one of simple survival. Advancement will turn to regression as society decends into a new dark age.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby cliffy1 » Feb 2nd, 2013, 1:09 pm

-fluffy- wrote:I think I could take a stab at that. Continuing practices that are unsustainable in regard to environmental, economic and social issues will shift our focus from the search for new knowledge and skills increasingly towards one of simple survival. Advancement will turn to regression as society decends into a new dark age.

The unsustainability of our technology will be our undoing for sure. We are like lemmings heading for the cliff and as we get closer we run faster toward our doom. Humanity will probably survive, although, in far fewer numbers. A mass die off is inevitable and that will plunge us into a darkness that may take centuries or even a millennium to recover from. I believe, from the evidence I have seen, that this is not the first time humanity has been here and there. It is unfortunate that, in spite of our claims to intelligence, that we really can't control ourselves even in the face of the inevitable. Nobody is willing to give up anything to slow down this runaway train.
Trying to get spiritual nourishment from a two thousand year old book is like trying to suck milk from the breast of a woman who has been dead that long.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby Boda » Feb 2nd, 2013, 1:23 pm

-fluffy- wrote:I think I could take a stab at that. Continuing practices that are unsustainable in regard to environmental, economic and social issues will shift our focus from the search for new knowledge and skills increasingly towards one of simple survival. Advancement will turn to regression as society decends into a new dark age.



Fair enough. If you are suggesting that our best chances for creating a sustainable human existence is looking elsewhere other than this rock?

I'm not conviced that this is the best avenue for collective efforts to find a sustainable environment for humanity.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby fluffy » Feb 2nd, 2013, 1:33 pm

Boda wrote:Fair enough. If you are suggesting that our best chances for creating a sustainable human existence is looking elsewhere other than this rock?

I'm not conviced that this is the best avenue for collective efforts to find a sustainable environment for humanity.


I don't think that off-world colonization as a "Plan B" is an ethical solution, it may come to pass as something necessary if we poison this world to the point in uninhabitabilty, but if that proves to be the case I'd say we don't deserve a new world if we couldn't take care of this one. There's still time to pull this one back from the brink but at present I don't see a collective will to do so. I fear that it will be too late by the time the necessity of change becomes obvious to all, as even then there will be many who wish to leave the task to others.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby Boda » Feb 2nd, 2013, 1:57 pm

[quote="-fluffy I don't think that off-world colonization as a "Plan B" is an ethical solution, it may come to pass as something necessary if we poison this world to the point in uninhabitabilty, but if that proves to be the case I'd say we don't deserve a new world if we couldn't take care of this one. There's still time to pull this one back from the brink but at present I don't see a collective will to do so. I fear that it will be too late by the time the necessity of change becomes obvious to all, as even then there will be many who wish to leave the task to others.[/quote]


I concur Fluffy.
I try not to think about what mankinds past and current influences to this rocks habitability will render future generations. It's scary.

I also beleive as GIS_Dude alludes to that a "correction" of some sort whether initiated by humankind or not will take place on this rock before we aquire the ability to utilize extraterestial conquests for human sustainability.

Further to this thought I beleive that sucsessful collective initiatives will stem from the political arena originating from changes adressing amendments to capitilism, but of course that is another topic for another thread.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 2nd, 2013, 2:35 pm

Interesting views, opinions and insight folks.
I'm enjoying reading this thread.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby Poindexter » Feb 6th, 2013, 10:53 am

-fluffy wrote: I don't think that off-world colonization as a "Plan B" is an ethical solution, it may come to pass as something necessary if we poison this world to the point in uninhabitabilty, but if that proves to be the case I'd say we don't deserve a new world if we couldn't take care of this one. There's still time to pull this one back from the brink but at present I don't see a collective will to do so. I fear that it will be too late by the time the necessity of change becomes obvious to all, as even then there will be many who wish to leave the task to others.


Realistically there is no plan B. The amount of money and energy required to visit a distant solar system makes it all but impossible. The technology that would be required to make such a trip could also save earth and provide a home in a far most cost effective way. Technology such as a clean, stable and as of yet undiscouvered energy source. But we're a long way off from that.

I'm not sure if it's been discussed on this forum but it is very likely humans are currently de-evolving. There have been alot of unheathly human stock that has managed to multiply for many generations making humans weaker. Add in heavy metals and what it does to the genes of our offspring making them duller and we are also becoming less intelligent. Evolution can also go in reverse and the human race may have already hit it's peak on the evolutionary scale. A 1000 years from now it is far more likely we'll still be on this planet but will resemble an encient ancestor of ours and not visiting distant solar systems.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby Necro » Feb 16th, 2013, 12:08 pm

evolution via natural selection is so well supported by physical evidence that magical thinking is required to disregard it.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby fluffy » Feb 16th, 2013, 12:25 pm

Poindexter wrote:Add in heavy metals and what it does to the genes of our offspring making them duller and we are also becoming less intelligent. Evolution can also go in reverse and the human race may have already hit it's peak on the evolutionary scale.


Interesting thoughts. There was a guy on the radio yesterday talking about a study that linked a temporary spike in crime rates to the introduction and subsequent banning of lead as a gasoline additive. Who knows what cel phones and sugar are doing to the big picture.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby tryscotty » Feb 16th, 2013, 1:22 pm

Necro wrote:evolution via natural selection is so well supported by physical evidence that magical thinking is required to disregard it.
You mean the complex language that these books are written in? The experts don't agree on the science of it and the rest of us cannot begin to understand the complexities of what is written. we cannot even discern the contradictions for that matter. The answer? Rely on very smart sounding people who say what you said and insist you have to be stupid or blind to not believe.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby Necro » Feb 17th, 2013, 7:33 am

You mean the complex language that these books are written in? The experts don't agree on the science of it and the rest of us cannot begin to understand the complexities of what is written. we cannot even discern the contradictions for that matter. The answer? Rely on very smart sounding people who say what you said and insist you have to be stupid or blind to not believe.


start with this, then we'll talk.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/e ... sheet.html
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby tryscotty » Feb 17th, 2013, 9:42 am

Necro wrote:
start with this, then we'll talk.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/e ... sheet.html


You're insulting. As far as scientific theories and formulas, I do have a decent knowledge of them. Your comment is exactly what I was talking about though. "What do you mean you don't get it"? "Its so simple, you have to be dumb". This is what is either said or implied in the way these are taught today.

If you have something to add that isn't insulting, I might respond.
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