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Evolution or Creation?

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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby jennylives » Feb 17th, 2013, 2:01 pm

The same scientists that work on climate science are working in genetics? Really?
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby Glacier » Feb 17th, 2013, 2:47 pm

Well no, but you know what I meant.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby zzontar » Feb 17th, 2013, 7:08 pm

I can see how a bird's beak could evolve to get at nectar or such easier, but something like certain ants in a colony chosen to grow temporary wings to get them to far-away places to start their own colonies where they drop their wings seems impossible the way evolution works.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby fluffy » Feb 17th, 2013, 7:34 pm

What are you saying zzontar, that lack of a scientific explanation implies another solution? Is that what they call a "leap of faith" ? :127:
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby zzontar » Feb 17th, 2013, 7:52 pm

-fluffy- wrote:What are you saying zzontar, that lack of a scientific explanation implies another solution? Is that what they call a "leap of faith" ? :127:


I'm saying that to gradually grow wings probably wouldn't happen on a tunneling insect as they would be a disadvantage, and suddenly mutating a set that would fall off when they're not needed and only on certain ants is as far-fetched as any other idea, so they defy how evolution is supposed to happen.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby fluffy » Feb 17th, 2013, 8:12 pm

Unless we don't yet have a handle on how evolution is "supposed" to happen.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby jennylives » Feb 17th, 2013, 11:21 pm

zzontar wrote:I'm saying that to gradually grow wings probably wouldn't happen on a tunneling insect as they would be a disadvantage, and suddenly mutating a set that would fall off when they're not needed and only on certain ants is as far-fetched as any other idea, so they defy how evolution is supposed to happen.


A tunneling insect isn't going to stay in a tunnel forever if it can acquire food or a mate easier by flying. It isn't that mutations occur to fill a need or that work how we think it should. Evolution is a not a designed process. The mutations are random that give an advantage to passing on the genes to the next generation and they compile over a very long period of time. This is why this occurs in a giraffe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recurrent_laryngeal_nerve

You also have to keep in mind the amount of time this occurs over. The Tyrannosaurus rex lives closer to humans existing than it did to the Stegosaurus existing. If you look at what humans turned wolves into with the variety of domestic dogs over tens of thousands of years it is easier to see the possibilities over billions of years. It is not a sudden process.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby zzontar » Feb 18th, 2013, 8:43 am

It's probably an advantage for most species to be able to fly, yet I've never seen any evidence of any species suddenly developing wings or any fossils of insects or anything where they have wings in different stages of development. One of the oldest flying species is the dragonfly, which seems to have started off as the most advanced flying creature about 235 million years ago, which also goes against evolution.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby Necro » Feb 18th, 2013, 9:51 am

One of the oldest flying species is the dragonfly, which seems to have started off as the most advanced flying creature about 235 million years ago, which also goes against evolution.


excactly how, does it go against evolution, hmm?

if your entire argument against evolution is found within the pages of Creation Magazine, at least have the courage to site your sources.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby zzontar » Feb 18th, 2013, 11:57 am

No source needed. Evolution is supposed to advance traits in a species, not start them off as being advanced.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby Hmmm » Feb 18th, 2013, 12:27 pm

Can a single cell replicate without RNA/DNA? I'm under the impression they cannot. If by chance somehow a cell came about, did it also come with a fully functioning RNA/DNA? Did it not need it and evolution put it in later?

I go to this discussion because it seems the most amazing thing was the beginning. I understand evolution starts after that (which I don't agree), but how does a very complex RNA/DNA form to begin with? It is full of information right? Where did the information come from?

If anybody is going to refer to me as stupid for asking, just skip your comment now.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby cliffy1 » Feb 18th, 2013, 5:26 pm

Perhaps this planet was seeded by an alien species billions of years ago and is waiting for us to evolve enough so they can communicate to us the truth of our origins. Perhaps they have not done so yet is because we are not intelligent enough to handle the truth.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby jennylives » Feb 18th, 2013, 5:57 pm

zzontar wrote:It's probably an advantage for most species to be able to fly, yet I've never seen any evidence of any species suddenly developing wings or any fossils of insects or anything where they have wings in different stages of development. One of the oldest flying species is the dragonfly, which seems to have started off as the most advanced flying creature about 235 million years ago, which also goes against evolution.


If the mutations never occur they will never evolve wings. Evolution is a not a purpose driven process unless you count the purpose as being reproduction.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby zzontar » Feb 18th, 2013, 6:17 pm

jennylives wrote:If the mutations never occur they will never evolve wings. Evolution is a not a purpose driven process unless you count the purpose as being reproduction.


I always thought evolution was purpose driven, the purpose being the best chance of survival, so the ones with the most successful traits would have the best chance. e.g. birds born with slightly longer bills might be able to get at more food, so eventually the longer-billed birds would become more plentiful. To have a non-flying species mutate a set of working wings is less likely than a snake being born with functional legs even though snakes supposedly used to have legs so you'd figure it would still come up in their DNA somewhere, but even that doesn't happen.
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Re: Evolution or Creation?

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 18th, 2013, 6:28 pm

cliffy1 wrote:Perhaps this planet was seeded by an alien species billions of years ago and is waiting for us to evolve enough so they can communicate to us the truth of our origins. Perhaps they have not done so yet is because we are not intelligent enough to handle the truth.



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