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The Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

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The Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

Postby Thinktank » Feb 24th, 2013, 6:55 am

Baba Mezia 24a
If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned.

Is that in the Talmud?

the reason I'm asking is I have never seen a Talmud in my life and wouldn't have a clue how
to even prove if something is written in it or not. There is a lot of antisemitic garbage on the internet,
and a lot of smart people on this forum - so let's see if someone knows the answer.

I'm sure someone on this forum can answer the question.
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Re: the Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

Postby fluffy » Feb 24th, 2013, 7:39 am

Thinktank wrote:I'm sure someone on this forum can answer the question.


Can't help you myself, but I'll keep an eye on this thread to see if anyone can. The Talmud is not so much a rulebook as it is a series of discussions or debates on various topics. Apparently it does form the basis of Judaic law, but it is wide open to interpretation in its application.
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Re: the Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

Postby cliffy1 » Feb 24th, 2013, 8:08 am

If an item is lost, how would the finder know it was lost by a gentile? Seems ludicrous to me.
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Re: the Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

Postby janalta » Feb 24th, 2013, 4:46 pm

cliffy1 wrote:If an item is lost, how would the finder know it was lost by a gentile? Seems ludicrous to me.


Not if it was a crucifix :127:
Wise enough to know better.
Old enough to care less.
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Re: the Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

Postby Thinktank » Feb 24th, 2013, 5:10 pm

I'm pretty sure it says that in the Talmud. It sounds ridiculous, but if you look at
the Quran that says it's okay to chop off a thief's hand, and if you look at some of the strange
things written in the old testament of the bible, it's not such a big deal for the ancient Jews to say they
shouldn't return property to a gentile. And I'm sure there's a lot more weird stuff in the Talmud, that
no one really wants to talk about.

But it reminds me of some people I knew twenty years ago, from church. When I caught a ride with them
in their van, and if I left something in the van and asked for it a few days later, they wouldn't return it to me.
People like that do exist. They'll keep your stuff, and just look really puzzled when you ask for it.
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Re: the Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

Postby cliffy1 » Feb 24th, 2013, 6:34 pm

janalta wrote:Not if it was a crucifix :127:

There were probably no Christians when that was written. Besides, unless it is jewel encrusted, why would a Jew want a crucifix?
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Re: the Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

Postby cliffy1 » Feb 24th, 2013, 6:38 pm

Thinktank wrote:I'm pretty sure it says that in the Talmud. It sounds ridiculous, but if you look at
the Quran that says it's okay to chop off a thief's hand, and if you look at some of the strange
things written in the old testament of the bible, it's not such a big deal for the ancient Jews to say they
shouldn't return property to a gentile. And I'm sure there's a lot more weird stuff in the Talmud, that
no one really wants to talk about.

But it reminds me of some people I knew twenty years ago, from church. When I caught a ride with them
in their van, and if I left something in the van and asked for it a few days later, they wouldn't return it to me.
People like that do exist. They'll keep your stuff, and just look really puzzled when you ask for it.

Just because a person says they're religious, doesn't make them a good person. Many a criminal has hidden behind religion. Take the mafia for example. Most are practicing Catholics.

"Forgive me father for I just rubbed out Guido."

"Say 10 Hail Mary's and don't kill Guido again, my son."
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Re: the Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

Postby kibbs » Feb 24th, 2013, 8:40 pm

The Talmud (Hebrew: תַּלְמוּד talmūd "instruction, learning", from a root lmd "teach, study") is a central text of Rabbinic Judaism, considered second to the Torah. It is also traditionally referred to as Shas (ש״ס), a Hebrew abbreviation of shisha sedarim, the "six orders" of the Oral Law of Judaism. The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah (Hebrew: משנה, c. 200 CE), the first written compendium of Judaism's Oral Law, and the Gemara (c. 500 CE), an elucidation of the Mishnah and related Tannaitic writings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Hebrew Bible. The terms Talmud and Gemara are often used interchangeably.
The whole Talmud consists of 63 tractates, and in standard print is over 6,200 pages long. It is written in Tannaitic Hebrew and Aramaic. The Talmud contains the opinions of thousands of rabbis on a variety of subjects, including law, ethics, philosophy, customs, history, theology, lore and many other topics. The Talmud is the basis for all codes of rabbinic law and is much quoted in other rabbinic literature.

This is used to define and reform the meaning of the old testament .When Christians separated they left it behind and formed the new testament, they left ages of interpretation and clung to the teachings of life of the Christ.I don't read any of the languages it is written in .I'm sure it is all very open for interpretation now just like the bible.
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Re: the Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

Postby kibbs » Feb 24th, 2013, 8:47 pm

I was wrong i found an English translation ,happy reading.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm
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Re: the Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

Postby fluffy » Feb 25th, 2013, 7:13 am

Yeah, right. Just try and make some sense of that stuff. I can understand why Jewish scholars can make a career out of interpreting that stuff.

http://www.come-and-hear.com/babamezia/babamezia_24.html
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Re: the Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

Postby Thinktank » Feb 25th, 2013, 11:19 am

kibbs wrote:The whole Talmud consists of 63 tractates, and in standard print is over 6,200 pages long. It is written in Tannaitic Hebrew and Aramaic. The Talmud contains the opinions of thousands of rabbis on a variety of subjects, including law, ethics, philosophy, customs, history, theology, lore and many other topics.


In any group of 1,000 people, whether it's 1,000 people in any church, or 1,000 people at a hockey game,
or 1,000 people sitting at home on a computer, you'll probably have 100 people (10%) who are awesome good guys,
100 people are total evil jerks, and the rest of the people - nothing spectacular.

So some of the Talmud will be pure evil. that part where you don't have to give the property
back to a Gentile, but you do have to give it back to a Jew - it's evil.
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Re: the Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

Postby fluffy » Feb 25th, 2013, 6:15 pm

Thinktank wrote:So some of the Talmud will be pure evil. that part where you don't have to give the property
back to a Gentile, but you do have to give it back to a Jew - it's evil.


"Pure evil" is a bit melodramatic don't you think ? It is plain that some favortism is shown towards jews over non-jews but bear in mind these are not particularly modern writings, and the jews are God's chosen ones. :127:

I tried to read that section to discern your answer and all I got really was that it is not the least bit straightforward as far as law books go. For the most part the decisions as to who gets to keep found items is conditional on being unable to locate the original owner.
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Re: The Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

Postby kibbs » Feb 25th, 2013, 7:06 pm

In the tomes of or ancestors it is written for all to see and remember ,these true words of ages have been passed on so that there wisdom is carried forth to us,From the time we were children it was embedded into us so that we may learn to guard and protect our property.Finders Keepers Losers Weepers :waaaaaaa:
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Re: The Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

Postby Thinktank » Feb 26th, 2013, 5:28 am

So if I believe this:
And unto him that smites you on the one cheek offer also the other; and he that takes away your cloak forbid not to take your coat also.

And half the people in my church belive this:
Finders Keepers Losers Weepers

What's going to eventually happen?
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Re: The Talmud. Can someone answer this question?

Postby fluffy » Feb 26th, 2013, 6:23 am

Maybe you could name a source on those quotes, for a little extra reading. It's pretty easy to get a screwed up interpretation when isolated tidbits are considered out of context.
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