Evolution or Creation?

[janalta]

There is no evidence to support how life was started through evolution. Atheists find it hard to believe a higher intelligence could create life when we humans are almost there ourselves, yet they'll easily believe that a bolt of lightning striking an inanimate object can create life that instantly knows how to eat, breathe, reproduce, and branch off into everything from a shrub to a giraffe. Amazing.

Is that seriously what you understand the theory of evolution to be?
A bolt of lightening struck an inanimate object and instantly life began?

How can you possibly state that there is no evidence to support evolution?
How is it that we can share 98% of our genetic make up with great apes if we did not all share a common ancestor?
Explain how the skeletal structure of birds is almost identical to those of prehistoric raptors if one did not evolve from the other?
The evidence is all around us, all one has to do it look.

( and you might want to brush up on a little research into the theories about how the earth and our universe began...a wee bit more in depth and complicated than a bolt of lightening )

On the other hand...I have never been shown one piece of evidence to support the theory of creation....not one.

[fluffy]

...and you might want to brush up on a little research into the theories about how the earth and our universe began...a wee bit more in depth and complicated than a bolt of lightening

Theories. As much as the traditional Christian story of creation makes no sense to me, let's be clear on the fact that science has yet to offer anything other than theories on that subject as well. I see evolution as as a proven fact. Even though it's still sporting s few holes in its continuity I can see no reasonable basis to dispute it. How it all started though is still anybody's guess, and at this point a bolt of lightning is as good a guess as any.

[zzontar]

There is no evidence to support how life was started through evolution. Atheists find it hard to believe a higher intelligence could create life when we humans are almost there ourselves, yet they'll easily believe that a bolt of lightning striking an inanimate object can create life that instantly knows how to eat, breathe, reproduce, and branch off into everything from a shrub to a giraffe. Amazing.

Is that seriously what you understand the theory of evolution to be?
A bolt of lightening struck an inanimate object and instantly life began?

How can you possibly state that there is no evidence to support evolution?
How is it that we can share 98% of our genetic make up with great apes if we did not all share a common ancestor?
Explain how the skeletal structure of birds is almost identical to those of prehistoric raptors if one did not evolve from the other?
The evidence is all around us, all one has to do it look.

( and you might want to brush up on a little research into the theories about how the earth and our universe began...a wee bit more in depth and complicated than a bolt of lightening )

On the other hand...I have never been shown one piece of evidence to support the theory of creation....not one.

I said there is no evidence to prove that life started through evolution. I know there is proof that certain plants and animals have evolved, but it has to start somewhere as the first cell didn't magically appear. Evolution should be able to be traced back to it's start or the most important part of the puzzle is still missing. One has to also wonder how there can still be one-celled creatures existing today that are supposedly our oldest ancestors that haven't evolved at all over a billion years. As far as science and creation, the scientific theory behind how the big bang and time simultaneously started is that there was an external force... think about that one for a while.

[fluffy]

As far as science and creation, the scientific theory behind how the big bang and time simultaneously started is that there was an external force... think about that one for a while.

Again, just theory at this point. Bottom line is that we just don't know.

[zzontar]

Exactly, like from the theme song on Corner Gas... "I don't know the same things that you don't know."

[janalta]

I said there is no evidence to prove that life started through evolution. I know there is proof that certain plants and animals have evolved, but it has to start somewhere as the first cell didn't magically appear. Evolution should be able to be traced back to it's start or the most important part of the puzzle is still missing. One has to also wonder how there can still be one-celled creatures existing today that are supposedly our oldest ancestors that haven't evolved at all over a billion years. As far as science and creation, the scientific theory behind how the big bang and time simultaneously started is that there was an external force... think about that one for a while.

Typical....seems to me rather convenient that so many religous types who care to believe in the whole creation thing can somehow justify picking and choosing which parts of actual scientific evidence to believe and which can't possibly be explained by any other means than a 'higher power'.
The bible leaves no room for mystery or options....there is nothing to explain all of the scientific evidence that has been discovered since it was written. I know...don't take it literally ( total cop-out so that it doesn't seem quite so fictional ).....but there is nothing in there that touches on the earth before man.

Perhaps the very start of the puzzle is still a mystery....does the fact that we have not yet been able to pinpoint exactly what happened millions of years before any of us were here, automatically mean that it was some sort of godly miracle? No, it means that we are just on the cusp of being able to understand and explain our world's history and beginnings. Considering the fact that science has only been around for a few thousand years...and only truly began to unravel many of the mysteries of the universe in the last few hundred years....we've already come a long way.
An external force....a mass explosion, collision of overheated particles, gasses that slowly cooled over millions of years.....external force can have many explanations besides..'.ha...must have been god !'

There was actually a program on TV a few weeks ago....I think it was the Discovery channel.....absolutely the best and most descriptive...and believable... explanation of the big bang theory/beginning of the universe that I have ever seen before. I'll try to find a link.

[fluffy]

Perhaps the very start of the puzzle is still a mystery....does the fact that we have not yet been able to pinpoint exactly what happened millions of years before any of us were here, automatically mean that it was some sort of godly miracle? No, it means that we are just on the cusp of being able to understand and explain our world's history and beginnings.

Actually, it means we don't know. We could be on the cusp of anything at this point. I don't think the traditional "God" concept, the all-powerful, all-knowing cosmic intelligence, is the answer. Science has ideas and speculation but nothing concrete at the moment. It seems to me that the best approach would be to keep an open mind and wait until there's something we know for sure. I suspect what we do find will be something a little more Obiwan Kenobi-ish, like a further refinement of Gaia theory, but truth be told it could be anything.

[janalta]

Actually, it means we don't know. We could be on the cusp of anything at this point. I don't think the traditional "God" concept, the all-powerful, all-knowing cosmic intelligence, is the answer. Science has ideas and speculation but nothing concrete at the moment. It seems to me that the best approach would be to keep an open mind and wait until there's something we know for sure. I suspect what we do find will be something a little more Obiwan Kenobi-ish, like a further refinement of Gaia theory, but truth be told it could be anything.

On that we can agree...we don't know.
Wish I could remember the name of that show I watched....perhaps it was on history...can't find it anywhere. But, it explained things in such a clear, concise manner that it made it almost as if there could be no other possibility. Not that they were selling their theory as THE answer, but just that it made that much sense....kind of like a...' Doh - I get it now'...moment.
Of course, much of it is still speculation...but some is also from observing what is going on in the universe today, how it is changing, evolving, birth and death of stars, etc.

Then again, we could all just watch Ancient Aliens and assume that we all came from some sort of portal in Orians Belt.

[fluffy]

Then again, we could all just watch Ancient Aliens and assume that we all came from some sort of portal in Orians Belt.

Or we could assume nothing and keep an open mind.

[janalta]

Or we could assume nothing and keep an open mind.

It would seem to me that the non-religious point of view is a whole lot more open minded on the subject.

Those who buy into the creation theory have one answer...god made it all.

Those of us who believe in evolution are open to the many possibilities on how, when and why everything unfolded as it has. We realize that we don't know the answer yet.

[fluffy]

It would seem to me that the non-religious point of view is a whole lot more open minded on the subject.

From some of the discussions I've seen in here I'd say the hard-liners from both camps are cut from the same cloth. Both want to claim absolute knowledge over areas still cloaked in mystery.

[janalta]

From some of the discussions I've seen in here I'd say the hard-liners from both camps are cut from the same cloth. Both want to claim absolute knowledge over areas still cloaked in mystery.

No matter what one believes, anyone who claims to have absolute knowledge about how the universe began, how life on earth began....well anyone with a lick of common sense knows that knowledge is an impossibility.
For the time being anyhow.

[Hmmm]

Those of us who believe in evolution are open to the many possibilities on how, when and why everything unfolded as it has.

Except God made it.

[fluffy]

No matter what one believes, anyone who claims to have absolute knowledge about how the universe began, how life on earth began....well anyone with a lick of common sense knows that knowledge is an impossibility.
For the time being anyhow.

Agreed. The same can be said for those who claim that the existence of some as-yet-undiscovered higher life force is an impossibility. For the time being we just don't know.

[zzontar]

It would seem to me that the non-religious point of view is a whole lot more open minded on the subject.

First of all, to believe there is a force or being that created everything is spiritual, not religious. I'm open-minded about evolution as it's a proven fact things can evolve, but I'm definitely not convinced the variety of life here just happened. A thousand years ago we weren't much more advanced than the tribes that live in the rainforest. Now, a thousand years later, we can fly, even to other planets, we can make things invisible, create artificial intelligence, make genetically altered food, create new species, etc, etc, while the people in the rainforests are still more or less where they were. I'm sure if those tribesman saw the species of fly we created, they would think it was created by a god until they became intelligent enough to acknowledge evolution, without even considering another possibility.

That's in a thousand years, now picture civilizations that are a billion years ahead of us in technology... you honestly don't think they could create what we have here? Then there is extra-dimensional factors to which we know next to nothing about but I believe exist. I'm open-minded to think these are all possibilities, so I'm wondering, what are you more open-minded about than I am?