Atheism/Agnosticism on the rise

[Nebula]

One: no other of those so called Christs amounted to anything except Jesus

In your opinion. I never said the prior iterations were Christs. That's your words. It seems pretty clear to me that they were all allegories, fables, just like the story of your Jesus.

Two:the people who were willing to die, we're hunted down and didn't volunteer. Yet they stood firm to a belief of something that recently happened as far as they were concerned.

What is your point? I'm sure there have been Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs and members of countless other religions who have been persecuted for their beliefs. Does that make them right?

Third: Jim Jones followers did follow him, a real person to death. Try another example.

And Jim Jones was not the savior they thought he was. Those people got sucked in, blindly followed and died for their stupidity.

[fluffy]

No, there is no evidence to support the existence of a god so there is no belief involved.

So you don't believe that there is no God. I get it now.

The point I was making is that everybody has a belief system. This has no religious undertones, a belief system is merely a set of rules that govern our day to day existence. Without one we could not function, simple as that.

[Hmmm]

Neb. All those religions you mentioned had human leaders who existed. I'm not arguing whether a religion is correct or not only that Jesus did live, like everyone else you mentioned.

[Mr Danksworth]

Neb. All those religions you mentioned had human leaders who existed. I'm not arguing whether a religion is correct or not only that Jesus did live, like everyone else you mentioned.

The evidence for a historical Jesus is shoddy at best. The death/rebirth/scapegoating myths tht were mapped on to him have roots that go back into pre-history. The Jews did not spend 40 years in the desert, there was no 'exodus' and their version of biblical hisory is a fabrication. The historiosity of the new testament is also easily falsifyable.

The only difference between religion and conspiracy theories is the undue respect that religions get. It's like a free pass for stupidity, anti-intellectualism, and cognitive dissonance. *Usernames removed*/ferri are the perfect examples of what happens when one throws reality under the train in favor of personal 'beliefs'. Watching you all bicker over your alternate, contradictory versions of christianity has done nothing but reinforce that I have made the correct choice.

[Nebula]

Neb. All those religions you mentioned had human leaders who existed.

You know, I remember doing a report on Hinduism in Grade 7 Social Studies. Don't remember much, but I'm pretty sure that religion has thousands upon thousands of gods. I do recall Shiva (I think that's the one) had multiple arms. Now I don't know about you, but thinking logically, I'm suspecting Shiva never really existed.

[fluffy]

Watching you all bicker over your alternate, contradictory versions of christianity has done nothing but reinforce that I have made the correct choice.

What choice did you make?

[zzontar]

It seems to me that in that about 40 years ago, most every family I knew went to church whereas there are very few that I know of today. 40 years isn't a long time but who feels safer now than then? Why is it so many things today have to be designed with some sort of anti-evil device included?

[Nebula]

Isn't religion supposed to be the ultimate anti-evil device?

[zzontar]

Isn't religion supposed to be the ultimate anti-evil device?

No, good is anti-evil, but you still haven't answered the question.

[5VP]

The evidence for a historical Jesus is shoddy at best. The death/rebirth/scapegoating myths tht were mapped on to him have roots that go back into pre-history. The Jews did not spend 40 years in the desert, there was no 'exodus' and their version of biblical hisory is a fabrication. The historiosity of the new testament is also easily falsifyable.

The only difference between religion and conspiracy theories is the undue respect that religions get. It's like a free pass for stupidity, anti-intellectualism, and cognitive dissonance. *Usernames removed*/ferri are the perfect examples of what happens when one throws reality under the train in favor of personal 'beliefs'. Watching you all bicker over your alternate, contradictory versions of christianity has done nothing but reinforce that I have made the correct choice.

...and this illustrates the problem with viewing ancient history through the lens of 21st century revisionism especially with reference to the bible. For example the gay culture in North America regularly subverts language and symbology to satisfy it's goals. They've claimed the words gay, queer, phaggot etc. and changed their meaning for society at large and we apparently now also have gay leprechauns dangling their lures at the end of rainbows and guarding their lucky "charms".

One can't even post the word Phaggot in it's original form here due to subversion by gay agendists. The true meaning of a bundle of firewood has been lost due to this subversion.

I'd suggest that it is the cacophony of religions and special interest groups is what needs to be revised not ancient words written millennia ago.

There is no mention of Christianity as a distinct religion mentioned in the bible so attacking Christian beliefs is not an indictment of the bibles message or it's stories or mention of GOD or Jesus Christ. It could be considered anti-semitic however.

How ironic that mewling defenders of homosexuality claim biblical persecution in the face of what the Jewish culture has endured over the millennia while both using and attacking the same Mosaic laws that gives dissenters and special interest groups today the freedom to dissent in the first place and furthermore, deny the written history of the whole Jewish race of people as an irrelevant fable in their questing for for homosexual rights.

Neo Nazis today similarly seek to revise history in their favor by using Jewish based laws.

Classic red herring tactics used by special interest groups.

If people here think they are being repressed by the bible than try going to Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan etc. and declaring your gay atheist rights!!

Other ancient cultural/religious texts are even more wildly provocative but they are not under attack like the Judeo Christian bible simply because our western culture's freedoms, laws and morality are largely based on the Mosaic laws of the bible.

Having the free will, and freedom of speech now, to challenge anything in the bible that gets in the way of our personal freedom agendas does not and will not change the messages passed down to us in the bible.

For example: with reference to the Jews spending 40 years in the desert...

So what if they did? I'm glad it wasn't me. When did humans standardize time into days weeks, months, hours, minutes? It was long after these thing were written about in the bible so modern scale is inapplicable unless proper context is given to the laws and traditions of those times.

How do you know there was no Exodus? The Jewish sojourn in Egypt is also mentioned in Egyptian texts, not just the bible.

The populations in the middle east then, were not separated by the current Islamo/Judeo/Christian divisions.

Again you are applying 21st century revisionist.thinking onto what was written thousands of years ago. Ancient scribes were not writing best selling novels for personal profit like today. Very few people knew how to read and writing materials were scarce. Scribes then had no motivation to merely spin yarns for entertainment purposes like Hollywood or the Stephen King's of today.

Like it or not, the bible is a static force in our culture that has repeatedly stood the test of time and will remain a valid document long after we here have perished.

This ongoing subversion of biblical history by special interest groups is what needs to be addressed.

Quo Vadis??

[Nebula]

No, good is anti-evil, but you still haven't answered the question.

I don't think I understand the question. What is an anti-evil device to you?

[averagejoe]

5VP wrote:
How do you know there was no Exodus? The Jewish sojourn in Egypt is also mentioned in Egyptian texts, not just the bible.

In ancient Egypt, in the sprawling public square facing the Temple of On stood three granite Obelisks. On (Heliopolis to the Greeks; Beth-Shemish to the Hebrews) is the birthplace of Joseph's two sons - Manasseh (the older) and Ephraim (the younger). According to hieroglyphics inscribed on each stone momument, one of the three Obelisks was set up in the 12th dynasty while the other two were set up in the 18th dynasty. The oldest Obelisk still remains in its original location today, but the two that were erected at the time when Manasseh and Ephraim were born have been relocated far from Egypt

http://www.ilibros.net/obelisks.html

The Egyptians built in honor of Joesph's two sons Manasseh and Ephraim 3 obelisks. 2 were moved in the 1800's. 1 to London and 1 to New York City. The Egyptians acknowledged the Israelites in stone writings.

From the Declaration of Arbroath or Scottish declaration of Independence of 1320 AD. They mention the Crossing the Red Sea by the Israelites.

Most Holy Father and Lord, we know and from the chronicles and books of the ancients we find that among other famous nations our own, the Scots, has been graced with widespread renown. They journeyed from Greater Scythia by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the Pillars of Hercules, and dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage tribes, but nowhere could they be subdued by any race, however barbarous. Thence they came, twelve hundred years after the people of Israel crossed the Red Sea, to their home in the west where they still live today. The Britons they first drove out, the Picts they utterly destroyed, and, even though very often assailed by the Norwegians, the Danes and the English, they took possession of that home with many victories and untold efforts; and, as the historians of old time bear witness, they have held it free of all bondage ever since. In their kingdom there have reigned one hundred and thirteen kings of their own royal stock, the line unbroken a single foreigner.

http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/home/scotland/a ... glish.html

[Mr Danksworth]

Watching you all bicker over your alternate, contradictory versions of christianity has done nothing but reinforce that I have made the correct choice.

what choice did you make?

I made the choice to decide for myself, and to not listen to neo-Luddite, anti-intellectual, god thugs.

[Mr Danksworth]

...and this illustrates the problem with viewing ancient history through the lens of 21st century revisionism especially with reference to the bible. For example the gay culture in North America regularly subverts language and symbology to satisfy it's goals. They've claimed the words gay, queer, phaggot etc. and changed their meaning for society at large and we apparently now also have gay leprechauns dangling their lures at the end of rainbows and guarding their lucky "charms".

One can't even post the word Phaggot in it's original form here due to subversion by gay agendists. The true meaning of a bundle of firewood has been lost due to this subversion.

I'd suggest that it is the cacophony of religions and special interest groups is what needs to be revised not ancient words written millennia ago.

There is no mention of Christianity as a distinct religion mentioned in the bible so attacking Christian beliefs is not an indictment of the bibles message or it's stories or mention of GOD or Jesus Christ. It could be considered anti-semitic however.

How ironic that mewling defenders of homosexuality claim biblical persecution in the face of what the Jewish culture has endured over the millennia while both using and attacking the same Mosaic laws that gives dissenters and special interest groups today the freedom to dissent in the first place and furthermore, deny the written history of the whole Jewish race of people as an irrelevant fable in their questing for for homosexual rights.

Neo Nazis today similarly seek to revise history in their favor by using Jewish based laws.

Classic red herring tactics used by special interest groups.

If people here think they are being repressed by the bible than try going to Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan etc. and declaring your gay atheist rights!!

Other ancient cultural/religious texts are even more wildly provocative but they are not under attack like the Judeo Christian bible simply because our western culture's freedoms, laws and morality are largely based on the Mosaic laws of the bible.

Having the free will, and freedom of speech now, to challenge anything in the bible that gets in the way of our personal freedom agendas does not and will not change the messages passed down to us in the bible.

For example: with reference to the Jews spending 40 years in the desert...

So what if they did? I'm glad it wasn't me. When did humans standardize time into days weeks, months, hours, minutes? It was long after these thing were written about in the bible so modern scale is inapplicable unless proper context is given to the laws and traditions of those times.

How do you know there was no Exodus? The Jewish sojourn in Egypt is also mentioned in Egyptian texts, not just the bible.

The populations in the middle east then, were not separated by the current Islamo/Judeo/Christian divisions.

Again you are applying 21st century revisionist.thinking onto what was written thousands of years ago. Ancient scribes were not writing best selling novels for personal profit like today. Very few people knew how to read and writing materials were scarce. Scribes then had no motivation to merely spin yarns for entertainment purposes like Hollywood or the Stephen King's of today.

Like it or not, the bible is a static force in our culture that has repeatedly stood the test of time and will remain a valid document long after we here have perished.

This ongoing subversion of biblical history by special interest groups is what needs to be addressed.

Quo Vadis??

Congratlations, sir. You have just won the internet! You managed to fit homosexuals, nazi's and jews into one incoherent rant! Spectacular! Stellar!

[I Think]

Thanks for hanging in there Mr Danksworth,
You are a better man than I am Gunga din.
Personally I find interminable arguments about how many gods can dance on the head of my er - pin get boring.