Castanet

zzontar wrote:- Lack of information intake (so you don't hear as much about the crime until it actually affects you) Go screw a goat in a small town that doesn't even have internet and see just how quick the information spreads

Bad example. The test would be, would you hear about someone screwing a goat in a small town 3,000 kilometres away?

If you lived in a small town, knowing what crimes happen 3000 km away wouldn't make your town any safer.

zzontar wrote:]Go to the smaller towns and communities today and you'll see a higher percentage of people who lock their doors than larger towns 50 years ago

That would be impossible to compare, really. I wasn't even around 30 years ago let alone 50.

Go screw a goat in a small town that doesn't even have internet and see just how quick the information spreads

Doesn`t matter. If it wasn`t for radio, Internet or newspapers (that weren`t around 50 years ago or still don`t exist in smaller communities), I would never know about 95% of the crimes committed in this city - hence I would feel much safer and have very rosy picture of the reality.

I think it's the opposite, which is why there are way more complaints about bad businesses than there are nice compliments about good ones.

Nope. People tend to remember good things - all psychologists will agree on this one - such is human nature.

Don't the statistics show violent crime rates are actually dropping? It is not crime that is more prevalent, it's fear. When I grew up (not too long ago) the news was an hour and the paper came once a week. Now we have several 24 hour networks filling time and selling ads based on ratings, newspapers and, of course, the internet. We are bombarded with information constantly. These things were still occuring several years ago, they just didn't get around to reporting it.

BTW, two of the most philantropic people ever are Bill Gates and Warren Buffet who are both non-beleivers. The pope sits on a gold throne and wears a crown.

jennylives wrote:Don't the statistics show violent crime rates are actually dropping?

Yes and no. Yes, it is lower than it was 20 years ago, but it's still >300% higher than it was 50 years ago. When one considers that younger people commit more crime, and when one considers the median age in Canada is now 41 compared to 26 some 50 years ago, it's likely that violent crime has dropped over the past 20 years only because the population has aged, and not because we are less violent on a per-age basis. As a matter of fact, as violent crime rates have dropped since 1992, youth violent crime has gone up.

I apologize if this is off topic.

jennylives wrote:Don't the statistics show violent crime rates are actually dropping? It is not crime that is more prevalent, it's fear. When I grew up (not too long ago) the news was an hour and the paper came once a week. Now we have several 24 hour networks filling time and selling ads based on ratings, newspapers and, of course, the internet. We are bombarded with information constantly. These things were still occuring several years ago, they just didn't get around to reporting it.

Glacier beat me to it and is correct in suggesting the stats bear a closer look. While the overall rate of violent crime has gone down that is a function of demographics. In other words, the majority of the population has gotten older and the propensity for committing crime overall decreases with age. On the other hand, the incidence of violent crime among youth (a smaller demographic from age 15 to 25) has, in fact, gone up – and not only that, has also become more severe and sensationalistic. It’s certainly not something to be dismissed and is a subject of itself – for a different board.

That being said I agree that our politicians are using fear to gain political points while continuing to ignore the issues that contribute to crime. I also don’t know what, if anything, any of this has to do with religion or atheism. As 5VP pointed out war will not cease to exist if everyone turned to atheism, and I would add crime would certainly not cease to exist if everyone turned back to religion.


As for the information thing that is also most certainly true – although the 24 hour news networks are incredibly redundant. I have heard, though, that people today are exposed to more new information in a week than people a hundred years ago were exposed to in a lifetime.

Another thing to consider would be what the crime rate would be today if it was like 50 years ago when people didn't lock their doors, almost no one had security systems, etc. Even if crime decreases, it doesn't necessarily mean people are morally becoming less criminal, it might be that it's just harder to be one.

I too, don't see any direct correlation between the shift away from Christian religions and any rise in crime rates, but there are plenty of reason for both in other areas. I think the drop in religious numbers is in part a function of the information age we are living in and religion's failure to keep up with the times so to speak. There is also the proliferation of highly addictive drugs that are available now in unprecendented amounts that account for much of the gang and property crime. Add to that our steadily liberalizing views toward crime and punishment over the years and you have a perfect storm for increases in crime.

-fluffy- wrote: There is also the proliferation of highly addictive drugs that are available now in unprecendented amounts that account for much of the gang and property crime. Add to that our steadily liberalizing views toward crime and punishment over the years and you have a perfect storm for increases in crime.

What do you mean by those last two statements?

Sneaksuit wrote:What do you mean by those last two statements?

I offer those as a possible explanation for the rise in crime rates, as opposed to the theory that the rise is tied to a reduction in the number of religious devotees.

-fluffy- wrote:I offer those as a possible explanation for the rise in crime rates, as opposed to the theory that the rise is tied to a reduction in the number of religious devotees.

Have you seen this?

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidie ... 1b-eng.htm

Crime rates in the US have also been dropping for roughly the same period.

Sneaksuit wrote:Have you seen this?

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidie ... 1b-eng.htm

Crime rates in the US have also been dropping for roughly the same period.

Yes, that trend is worth noting to be sure, but the time frame under discussion here was fifty years, and overall we are still considerably higher today than fifty years ago.

The meat of my comment remains the same, I think that trying to draw any connection between a decrease in the number of churchgoers and the rise in crime is a pretty big stretch.

An atheist was seated next to a little girl on an airplane and he turned to her and said, "Do you want to talk? Flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger."

The little girl, who had just started to read her book, replied to the total stranger, "What would you want to talk about?"

"Oh, I don't know," said the atheist. "How about why there is no God, or no Heaven or Hell, or no life after death?" as he smiled smugly.

"OK," she said. "Those could be interesting topics but let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff - grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, but a horse produces clumps. Why do you suppose that is?"

The atheist, visibly surprised by the little girl's intelligence, thinks about it and says, "Hmmm, I have no idea."

To which the little girl replies, "Do you really feel qualified to discuss God, Heaven and Hell, or life after death, when you don't know *bleep*?"

And then she went back to reading her book...

steven lloyd wrote:
To which the little girl replies, "Do you really feel qualified to discuss God, Heaven and Hell, or life after death, when you don't know *bleep*?"..

Not nice comparing *bleep* to religion but overall an appropriate choice of metaphor..